Made to Measure Suits. School me

NastyPirate said:

I find this discussion boils down to this; if a suit is not an everyday necessity, and your suiting is not part of the success equation, a decent suit for $500 is the way to go.

The only people who should be trying to decide between an MTM and bespoke suit are what is, in reality, a select few for whom an expensive wardrobe is a prerequisite, or, at the very least, a major part of their daily success with peers. It's ridiculous for someone to need an MTM suit for occasional wear.

I'm not throwing shade here, but the reality is that a decent suit should not be looked at as inferior to an MTM or above. There is just no justification for an even better suit if you are not one of the 5%. And if you are, the point is moot because you already have four of them.

Ordering on line should be for shave soap, not suits. They need to be fitted.

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Following your logic most people would not need to purchase stainless steel razors, expensive (over $75) brushes, or high priced soaps.

In reality people should purchase the items they are comfortable with, whether it is shaving gear or suits.

There have been many useful links, and resources here for MTM suits.
Thanks to the members for posting them.

Interesting discussion in the last few posts.

My take is a little different from NastyPirate ... and from t-rhee. I'll suggest that any suit purchase is going to be a balancing act between three competing and/or complimenting issues: appearance, fit/comfort, and price. Every guy will make his own decisions on how much it "makes sense" to spend on a suit, based on his personal financial situation, based on his suit needs, and based on his body type and willingness to put up with imperfection.

Some guys will have a body shape that allows them to wear a certain "OTR" suit and look superb, and feel superb. They are lucky. They may need to go for an expensive suit to meet these criteria, or perhaps an inexpensive one will do the trick if they are really lucky. (Kind of like the broken clock that is correct twice a day, these guys are lucky to exist at the exact 9:52pm that matches exactly the suit that comes off the assembly line in Italy or China or wherever.) Being able to find an OTR suit at the price/quality/comfort level that suits them to a "T", they really have no need of MTM suits at all ... and only need bespoke if they yearn for something "odd" that can't be found OTR ... of course, they can still go for MTM or bespoke if they want to spend the extra money, but need to understand that this is a "feel-good purchase" rather than something that "make a difference" in their appearance or comfort.

Some guys ... most guys ... aren't so lucky as to have had an OTR suit made "perfectly" for them ... they need something a bit different to get the best out of a suit both in terms of appearance and comfort. How far away they are from the "OTR suit perfection" (which has nothing to do with actual perfection and everything to do with OTR manufacturers trying to make a suit that is "good enough" for as many possible customers as possible) will affect how dissatisfied they are with an OTR option and how much they will have to "put up with" with OTR. Couple that with personal tolerances (influenced by personal finance issues and frequency of use of the suit) and you get an idea of how likely a guy is going to be to look at MTM or bespoke ...

... and the choice between bespoke and MTM has a lot to do with just how "odd" (ie away from the norm of "regular suits") the guy's body happens to be. The more you are "way off the norm", the more bespoke becomes the better option. The more you strive for perfection in your fit, the more bespoke becomes the better option. The more money you are willing to throw at your wardrobe, the more bespoke becomes more attractive than MTM and MTM more attractive than OTR. The quality of each, as available in your area, will affect this too ... true bespoke tailors are hard to find, and good ones even harder; MTM is usually something you get in the big cities only ... and prices change in different locations (Hong Kong bespoke and New York bespoke are two different animals altogether.)

Bottom line, if a guy does not look and feel at his best in an OTR suit, there is nothing wrong with him ... within his personal budget ... going MTM or bespoke even if he will wear the suit only rarely. (Weddings, interviews and funerals are all important, so why not look your best?)



I also take issue with the notion that MTM and bespoke are "luxury range" items like an expensive watch that have little or nothing to do with practicality and utility. First off, OTR Armani, Brioni, &c. can be just as expensive (or more) than many MTM options, and even some bespoke options (excluding the airfare to Hong Kong.) Unlike a watch (where a $50 Timex, $500 Seiko, $5,000 Rolex and $50,000 IWC all tell the same time roughly equally well) a bespoke suit can perform its function of fitting you well "better than" a MTM suit, which in turn is "better than" an OTR (depending on body type &c ... see above.) That's both internal comfort and external appearance (ie hiding personal imperfections) both static and in movement.

(There can also be a "frivolous personal expenditure for the sake of expenditure and emotional satisfaction" aspect to the more expensive of suits ... especially MTM and bespoke ... as well, just like with expensive watches, but that is just one aspect of the suit question, and usually not the most important by a long shot.)

paintflinger said:

Derrick, did you figure out what direction you're going in?

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Nope

I think what I will need to do is go try on some OTR suits and start there. The jacket probably won't be a big deal a 48 taken in usually gets the job done. The pants on the other hand are the difficult part. I have a 34 inch waist with a badonkadonk and thick thighs so even finding dress pants that the pockets don't flair out on is difficult.

Lots of angst in here. Best of luck Quan.

Commander Quan said:

Nope

I think what I will need to do is go try on some OTR suits and start there. The jacket probably won't be a big deal a 48 taken in usually gets the job done. The pants on the other hand are the difficult part. I have a 34 inch waist with a badonkadonk and thick thighs so even finding dress pants that the pockets don't flair out on is difficult.

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Honestly, grab a ribbon tape measure and have someone you know measure you so that when you're searching you have a good idea of what will fit...especially if a sales associate is helping (hindering) you.

Doc4 said:

I also take issue with the notion that MTM and bespoke are "luxury range" items like an expensive watch that have little or nothing to do with practicality and utility. First off, OTR Armani, Brioni, &c. can be just as expensive (or more) than many MTM options, and even some bespoke options (excluding the airfare to Hong Kong.) Unlike a watch (where a $50 Timex, $500 Seiko, $5,000 Rolex and $50,000 IWC all tell the same time roughly equally well) a bespoke suit can perform its function of fitting you well "better than" a MTM suit, which in turn is "better than" an OTR (depending on body type &c ... see above.) That's both internal comfort and external appearance (ie hiding personal imperfections) both static and in movement.

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Eh, there are notable differences in those watches. The quartz is the most accurate, and you are glossing over the differences in movement complication and refinement. It's almost exactly the same as suit aesthetics, the higher end ones look much, much better, inside and out.

All my suits are Holland and Sherry from Tom James, get them from the same tailor every time and don't gain or lose weight! Also trunk shows are really useful as you can get $5,000 suits for $3,000 as the H&S fabric is from the previous 6 months. Since my suits last over 500 wears you can go longer than 6 months without replacing them. GO for sales and find a tailor that is the very best. Experiment your first 5 suits and then the last 20 or so should be absolutely perfect.

Expensive wool fabrics will pay for themselfs over the decade you own them. Cheap suits wear out fast, they are an investment.

There is some amazing advice on here so really read up on the subject before deciding what is right FOR YOU. Price, look, feel of the silk, etc. Do at least 20 hours of research before buying a suit and get the best you can afford. It will outlast you if you get a high quality fabric. The most important thing is... Don't go with wide or narrow lapels stick with the traditional 1/3 lapel. They never go out of style. If you're going to buy one suit and only one suit get the best that you can get. Preferably in Black So you can wear for weddings funerals Etc.


Edit: My trunk show comment sounded a bit pretentious. What I meant was that trunk shows are 50% off many times so a MTM suit that is normally $1,000 would be $500 which puts it in the price range of a off the rack suit. It will last much longer, fit much better and look so much better. Find a tailor and ask about trunk shows or contact Tom James and ask for a rep.

strop said:

Look for a Tom James rep. Not the cheapest MTM suit, but I've had good luck with them. No B&M store, but they will come to your home for the fitting. They used to arrive with big cases full of fabric swatches, but most of it now is on a tablet.

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^^^This

Pepin said:

Following your logic most people would not need to purchase stainless steel razors, expensive (over $75) brushes, or high priced soaps.

In reality people should purchase the items they are comfortable with, whether it is shaving gear or suits.

There have been many useful links, and resources here for MTM suits.
Thanks to the members for posting them.

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Your logic is incorrect.....Shaving items are personal, and the better the items, the better the shave. Suits are different. A MTM or bespoke suit only is necessary if your image and job require it. What i am reading here is that many believe the OP should get an MTM suit for one specific occasion, and that is ridiculous. A good quality OTR can be tailored by a reasonable tailor to fit anyone. Brand names don't mean diddly. Find a suit that fits your style and body, period. If you are wearing suits on a limited basis, or if your job does not require a bespoke suit for appearances, get a suit that is off the rack. If you are a linebacker at Ohio State, that is a different conversation.....

I gotta guy.

NastyPirate said:

Your logic is incorrect.....Shaving items are personal, and the better the items, the better the shave. Suits are different.

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Different for you maybe.

I don't think you can say his logic is incorrect though.

NastyPirate said:

Your logic is incorrect.....Shaving items are personal, and the better the items, the better the shave. Suits are different. A MTM or bespoke suit only is necessary if your image and job require it. What i am reading here is that many believe the OP should get an MTM suit for one specific occasion, and that is ridiculous. A good quality OTR can be tailored by a reasonable tailor to fit anyone. Brand names don't mean diddly. Find a suit that fits your style and body, period. If you are wearing suits on a limited basis, or if your job does not require a bespoke suit for appearances, get a suit that is off the rack. If you are a linebacker at Ohio State, that is a different conversation.....

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First point regarding your statement "Shaving items are personal, and the better the items, the better the shave", you responded to my post and you feel that higher priced items are better; you are are incorrect. Reading the the treads in those forums, it is obvious that price has no bearing in achieving a "better" shave. Arko, Proraso, Omega, Semogue, vintage razors are all low priced items that provide the best shave for many people.

Second point, OTR cannot always provide a person with a comfortable suit. MTM was recommended as an option for getting a suit that is more comfortable, as suits are personal items. He may not wear a suit often this week/month/etc., but his situation may change. He would then be prepared.
Finding a suit that best fits a persons style and body, may very well be offered best byMTM.

Horsehair canvas and quality wool should be your first priority. The name on the tag has little to do with quality, although it can be considered a good guide if you know what to look for. Most suits off the rack are fused and over the years will become unfused especially if you dry clean them creating bubbles in the fabric it's really obvious when you see these and is a sign of a cheap suit even if you paid a lot of money for it.