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Traditional wet shaving market penetration? Boom? Status Quo? Game Over?

What is your opinion as to the where traditional wet shaving market penetration is he

  • It's the tip of the iceberg. Expect 10% market penetration or more soon

  • A slow, steady uptick but the future is unclear

  • Steady state. Some will start. Some will quit.

  • The tipping point has been reached. Expect a slow decline

  • Game over. Some people will remain with it but history tends to repeat itself


Results are only viewable after voting.
What is the future of traditional wet shaving in terms of market penetration?

This is somewhat prompted by the question posted here http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/478354-Simple-Q-for-the-older-folks-here

When I walk into a major, mega supermarket:

1. there are NO razor blades of any kind. Zero.
2. There is one very cheap soap buried in the bottom shelf where a supermarket doesn’t want you to buy. You have to hunt for it. Forget about normal “super” markets. They have nothing.
3. There is one safety razor, also buried.

There are NO brick and mortar shops selling traditional supplies within 250 miles.

There is no ability to smell or try any product without buying samples, a very inconvenient system.

We live in a world of instant gratification, where people want that new car, new house, new furniture – today. Few people are willing to tolerate not getting instant gratification. As a society, we have become used to smartphones, taking photos or videos, and instantly posting them. Instantly - as in immediately. The concept of spending money to try something – anything – and not being free is hard to swallow. After all, aren’t most apps free? And then to have to wait for snail mail to arrive. For many in the mainstream, that might be intolerable.

According to some statistics I’ve read, the traditional wet shaving market (DE, SE, and straights) is around 0.6% within the US. This poll http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/472899-How-long-does-it-take-you-to-shave?highlight= indicates the time to shave is in the 10 – 20 minute range for most people. Society's need for instant gratification is entirely inconsistent with something that might take 15 minutes. Couple that with the inability to touch and feel products or having to wait for snail mail for product to arrive, might create an environment inconsistent with what mainstream America expects in 2016. This isn’t 1955 anymore. Time is money. People got selfies to post :tongue_sm

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Where do you see the traditional wet shaving market heading in terms of market penetration?

Some say this is the tip of the iceberg and its about to explode. Others might think it’s about done and the nostalgia kick is over. Everyone has different opinions.

Don’t confuse an explosion of small businesses jumping on a bandwagon, trying to make profits, with an explosion in the consumer base. These are vastly different things. Companies always want to make money. Some do at the birth of an industry, some at the death. And some never make it to market.

What’s your opinion? What is the future of the Traditional Wet Shaving market penetration into the mainstream American consumer market?

1. This is the tip of the iceberg and market penetration could move in the near future to 10% of more.
2. We are still on an uptick with a slow movement upwards in penetration but the future is unclear.
3. We will maintain a status quo. New people might join the traditional wet shaving community but others will leave resulting in a leveling off.
4. The tipping point has been reach and the industry will have a slow decline over the long term.
5. Game over. Some people will continue with their traditions but in the upcoming years the market penetration will drop substantially.

Thank you for expressing your opinion and voting.
 
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Things are a bit different here in the UK. Most larger towns, and many small ones, have a shop, or several, where you can buy some DE shaving supplies -- at least blades, cheap soap sticks and basic bristle brushes. As it happens, the small town in which I work (population about 12,000) also has two shops selling Merkur and Parker razors, silvertip brushes and a range of good soaps and creams.
I guess my take is that there is a bit of an increase in the interest in DE shaving, but hardly an explosion. I suspect this gradual increase might continue, and perhaps level off.
 
Things are a bit different here in the UK. Most larger towns, and many small ones, have a shop, or several, where you can buy some DE shaving supplies

I appreciate the perspective of those in the UK, which might be entirely different. I was talking solely in the US which is what I know. I live within a few miles of several MAJOR US cities, within the megapolis, and there is none. Zero. We also have "Super" Supermarkets that carry about everything you can think of from artisan breads and cheeses to prepared, restaurant quality foods, ready to eat besides the normal groceries, but not a single razor blade in sight. :blush:
 
Nice poll. I took the 2nd option. 10% is probably not going to happen. I actually see DE razors and soaps and brushes in some stores here in Cedar Rapids.

I don't think straights will become mainstream.

Hyvee has a cheap DE razor, Williams, some kind of 'Herban Cowboy' soap and German Wilkies for sale.
Target has a brush, a $20 DE razor and some kind of shave soap, I think VanDerHagen stuff.
The local co-op has the VanDerHagen stuff as well.

Perhaps we'll see a slight increase over time. Seems like vintage razors have gotten more expensive on auction sites, too.
 
I live in a medium sized town (about 150K population). I have the same issue. On the positive side, Cracker Barrel is selling these Badger brand products (like soap and mustache wax) that aren''t bad, but it's nice to see the branching out.
 
I contend that brick and mortar stores are no longer needed to sustain this lifestyle
The Internet and online payments make brick and mortar stores less necessary for all consumer items, from groceries to clothing to anything else you can think of being sold on Amazon and other such sites

it may be harder to get the word out about non-cartridge shaving and soaps and brushes and such, but those very people who live by the "time is money" mantra may one day decide, en mass, that $35 for 4 cartridges is too much and may leave that lifestyle for the cheapness (because we all started this to save money, right? Lol) of non-cartridge shaving.

In this day and age, even less popular shaving options can thrive precisely because there is no need for brick and mortar shops

Just two cents from a twenty-something
 
I'd go with #3.

In my case, I received a DE razor for a gift several years ago. I had complained to SWMBO about the cost of carts and she got me the razor (EJ DE87) from a Duluth Trading Company catalog. Came with Personna blades. Used it every day with Barbasol canned cream. Bought Wilkinson Sword blades at Wal-Mart. Mennen Skin Bracer AS.

Wal-Mart (at leaset the one local to me) stopped stocking the blades. Hopped on the internet looking for blades and found this forum purely by accident. Had blades been available locally, I never would have known about this "movement". Just would have kept on shaving like I always did only with a DE. I started with DE's in the mid 1960's. There could be folks like me out there that haven't wandered into shaving sites yet are traditional wet shavers. It IS just shaving after all. Oh, it can be a hell of a lot more pleasant with better products and I've settled on my go to line-up.

One observation is that most of the finer stuff available is not US made except for some high end stainless steel razors. UK, Germany, Russia, Italy seem to have the lion's share of the products loved on this forum. As you mention there are a bunch of cottage industry types making soaps, creams, brushes, bowls, etc. and there's probably enough folks trad shaving to support the good ones.

I just don't think one can base the market trajectory on the enthusiasm this forum exhibits for shaving, but on the other hand, there are new folks checking in all the time.

Probably the biggest roadblock for serious growth is that the business plan for the hardware would be upside down should a major player produce & promote DE razors. Like cheap HP printers, the printer costs less than $100.00 but the ink is $25.00 a pop. With a DE razor, the profit is basically one time at the point of purchase and the blades are dirt cheap. And without a major player manufacturing and promoting (advertising) The industry will likely stay as is.

Just my 2 cents.
 
There are NO brick and mortar shops selling traditional supplies within 250 miles.

That's a pretty broad statement. Where are you located? Anytime I see someone post like that I always look to see where they are from. It'd be helpful if you could update that in your profile. I'm in a fairly rural area and I can still find plenty in the local area.
 
we have a boomlet. You can see it by the number of soap makers, razor makers on kickstarter, people successfully building b&m shops, ebay sales etc

Whether it can go further is anyone's guess, but I would certainly say we are not yet mainstream.
 
I live in a smaller city and have never had a problem finding DE blades. They're in practically every grocery and drug store. Razors have started popping up, too. Wal-Marts have the Micro Touch and the Van Der Hagen razors are fairly common now.

There's no high end hobbyist or luxury stuff to speak of though.
 
When I walk into a major, mega supermarket:

1. there are NO razor blades of any kind. Zero.
2. There is one very cheap soap buried in the bottom shelf where a supermarket doesn’t want you to buy. You have to hunt for it. Forget about normal “super” markets. They have nothing.
3. There is one safety razor, also buried.

There are NO brick and mortar shops selling traditional supplies within 250 miles.
There is no ability to smell or try any product without buying samples, a very inconvenient system.
We live in a world of instant gratification, where people want that new car, new house, new furniture – today. .

You are exactly correct... but as a recent convert (6 month ago), and perhaps an example... the answer is... the INTERNET of THINGS.
You want instant gratification? You can get that without getting out of your chair.

When I first started looking for a better way, I stumbled across two sites: Shaving 101 and Badger and Blade. My reaction? Shock. I had no idea that I could still purchase a DE razor, much less the wide breath of accessories. I think AoS brick and mortar stores in the malls helps make it concrete and visual, but it is not where I stumbled upon a wealth of information and sources.
Amazon, West Coast Shaving, Maggard's and more... They are all there at a push of the enter key.
Reading through the Shave Clinic -Newbie Check-in tells me that my experience is typical. All it takes is a small desire to see what your options are regarding you daily shave, and the fuse is lit. (Had my Sensor razor not broke, I never would have looked). I think that as more men and women get exposed to the wealth of options, the world of classic wet shaving will grow... not by a trickle, but geometrically. Why? Because it takes a task that is mere drudgery and turns it into a delightful pastime.

Last thought... what helps it grow? The newest multi blade cartridge razors. There are parodies on videos showing 12 bladed weapons scraping the shaver's skin off. The manufacturers of carts have taken the concept to a degree where it is considered a legitimate target for comedy! When your product is good fodder for ridicule, people take notice. What better revolt against the $5 six bladed plastic cartridge, than a $0.15 blade held in a razor made of metal.
 
You are exactly correct... but as a recent convert (6 month ago), and perhaps an example... the answer is... the INTERNET of THINGS.
You want instant gratification? You can get that without getting out of your chair.

When I first started looking for a better way, I stumbled across two sites: Shaving 101 and Badger and Blade. My reaction? Shock. I had no idea that I could still purchase a DE razor, much less the wide breath of accessories. I think AoS brick and mortar stores in the malls helps make it concrete and visual, but it is not where I stumbled upon a wealth of information and sources.
Amazon, West Coast Shaving, Maggard's and more... They are all there at a push of the enter key.
Reading through the Shave Clinic -Newbie Check-in tells me that my experience is typical. All it takes is a small desire to see what your options are regarding you daily shave, and the fuse is lit. (Had my Sensor razor not broke, I never would have looked). I think that as more men and women get exposed to the wealth of options, the world of classic wet shaving will grow... not by a trickle, but geometrically. Why? Because it takes a task that is mere drudgery and turns it into a delightful pastime.

Last thought... what helps it grow? The newest multi blade cartridge razors. There are parodies on videos showing 12 bladed weapons scraping the shaver's skin off. The manufacturers of carts have taken the concept to a degree where it is considered a legitimate target for comedy! When your product is good fodder for ridicule, people take notice. What better revolt against the $5 six bladed plastic cartridge, than a $0.15 blade held in a razor made of metal.
I like your thought process. +1
 
Drugstores close to my home carry a selection of aftershaves, Williams soap, a brush etc.

There is a b&m store I can sample scents at, they have a very large selection of razors, brushes, soaps, creams, etc.
 

TexLaw

Fussy Evil Genius
I don't know what you classify a "major" US city or what you mean by "several miles," but I have a hard time believing you've done that much shopping, i.e., 250 mile radius. That sort of area, say extending from Dallas, would reach well into (if not through) Houston, just about to the Gulf of Mexico, and encompass nearly half of Texas, most of Oklahoma, and good portions of Louisiana and Arkansas. You're talking about 200,000 square miles, an area larger than any single state in the U.S. other than Alaska and Texas.

Every Wal-Mart, Walgreen's, Target, and CVS around the Houston area has at least some sort of traditional shaving supplies. I'll grant that the selection may not go much further than the VDH kit, the Micro Touch One (hawked by the Pawn Stars dude), and some sort of DE blade. We do have a store devoted to British goods, and they stock a good amount of EJ razors and brushes, as well as some triple-milled, English soaps (I don't recall what). I've seen EJ stuff at Target, as well.

I was very pleased to find an excellent drug store in Albuquerque where I was able to pick up a Merkur 37C, a Vie-Long 04312, a tub of DRH Arlington cream, a tuck of Personna Red blades, and a bottle of Lucky Tiger AS tonic. Now, I had to pay a good deal more for it all then I would have paid online, but that's the way it is for just about anything. I don't recall everything else they had, but they had a very nice selection of 6 or 8 good razors (Merkur and EJ, I believe), several blades (Personna Red, GSB, Derby, Feather, some manner of Gillete 7 o'Clock, and at least one other), a healthy handful of brushes (I recall an EJ badger, Omega boar, and something else in addition to the Vie-Long), and good (albeit small) shelf of soaps and creams. I know they had more AS choices, but I cannot recall what after the Lucky Tiger.

I haven't looked much at supermarkets, but I wouldn't expect to see much there. Most supermarkets I go into seem much more concerned with high volume merchandise, and I've actually watched their respective selections of toiletries decline over the years. Amazon is killing them as much as Amazon is killing other brick-and-mortar stores.

In any case, b&m stores aren't much of a sign. As you can see from looking around B&B, so very many shop online. There's a lot going on out there, and it doesn't seem to be slowing down. Judging from the number of new traditional shavers signing up over here all the time, I'd say there is room to grow. I doubt that any growth will be in a straight line or even always up, but it seems something is slowly coming back after a long sleep.
 
That's a pretty broad statement. Where are you located?

I don't know what you classify a "major" US city or what you mean by "several miles," but I have a hard time believing you've done that much shopping, i.e., 250 mile radius.

I didn't meant to make that a focus of this thread, only to highlight the difficulty. I am talking DC metro. There are two major US cities within 60 - 70 miles. The only store I know of is the Grooming Lounge and that is maybe 60 miles away. It carries a handful of brushes, a lot of razors, but their focus is ADP and its more a place, that I can see, to drop $130 - $300 for a haircut/shave with packages like The Potomac, The Congressman, The Hill, etc. Other than that I know of know real store others than the major ones like Pasteur in NYC, Superior Shave in FL, Q brothers in Chicago, Maggards, Old Town Shaving in CA, Royal Shave. ... Looking at the wiki http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Shopping_by_Country I see nothing mentioned in many states like NC, NJ, MD, DE.

When I said "major, mega supermarket" specifically I meant Wegmans. It doesn't get much bigger than that. I rechecked their app and sell no DE razor blades or I totally missed it or they are simply not available here. To be mainstream, they have to be available everywhere, like AA batteries. Walk into any store and pick them up.

I see no stores like Maggards, Superior Shave, Pasteur, etc. Even if they exist and I am not aware of them, then that is a big big problem because then they have no visibility. Forget about AOS. They are in about every Mall in America and are single product focused.
 
Rather than addressing individual responses, I’ll make these points here.

1. I understand the nature of polls in a closed community among a group of enthusiasts. Basically, they mean nothing other than the group think of like minded individuals if the subject at hand is the object of affection. If one goes into a Honda forum and asks “Do you like Hondas?”, nobody is going to say no. It’s not indicative of society at large. But that is not the question here. The question is your opinion on the future. Nobody can predict it but you might have insight into the customer base and whether or not its expanding, staying the same, or shrinking. I’m not asking if you like traditional wet shaving

2. I also understand the concept of its easy to buy online and forget walking into a store. I’ve seen the argument related to cars. For some subjects, I agree. For others, online buying will never replace the ability to see and touch something.

For example, the cheap, uncalibrated monitors many people use are notoriously incapable of portraying true color. If I wanted paint, there would be no way I would buy a color of paint without physically seeing it. If the subject is vision oriented, then you must see it.

Anyone who buys a car without a test drive, then you are brave indeed. Cars are something you feel as much as anything. It requires the sense of touch

Scent is the same way. Somethings you just need to smell. Do you really think it’s a good idea to pay $100 - $150 for some cologne based on somebody’s review rather than going into a Macys, Sephora, or whatever store is near you and actually smelling the scent? If so, good luck. You are brave.

That said, there are clearly some things you can buy online without ever seeing it. Things requiring vision, touch, or scent are not among them.

3. I get that most everywhere has common aftershaves like Pinaud and Brut. I’m not talking about that. I can find Williams soap in a drugstore (I think). I am talking a store of the caliber of a Maggards or Superior Shave or Old Towne Shaving.

But lets not make this about whether or not consumables are hard to find. I’m looking for the opinions on its future. The fact that consumables are hard to physically find only feeds the problem, one way or the other, especially in a society that lives by instant gratification.
 
Traditional shaving supplies are hard to find here. Some drugstores sell Tabac soaps, brushes but as for the rest they only carry modern shaving supplies. Some vendors at a local market do sell DE blades but they are expensive. 5 Astra SP's for 3 euros! Online you get 100 Astra's for 8 euros. I really don't care about the stores because I buy all my shaving supplies online.

I don't think it ever will be mainstream because many people do underestimate this ancient piece of "technology", I used to be one of those guys too. At highschool a science teacher told me once about DE shaving and I really believed that the Gillette Fusion was way better compared to his old razor.... I WAS WRONG! I wish I had converted it would had saved me a lot of troubles.

I also really believe that one day alcohol based aftershaves won't be available in stores many guys I know don't use it they use balms instead because the aftershave "stings" and it "hurts". It is really funny how guys are being feminized. I'm a young man and I really can't even find a decent pant, everything is so tight since they came up with that skinny fit fashion. Sometimes whenever I see a guy wearing one of those tight pants I wonder if he didn't wear the trouser of his sister? Some guys even get a laser treatment to remove their chesthair, I always wear an unbuttoned shirt and don't care what people think of my chesthair :lol:

Don't get me wrong I'm in my mid twenties but I really like the older things, wearing a tight skinny fit business pants is a no for me I feel comfortable in a classic fit pants like a real man. So combine this with my DE shaving hobby and you will be called a "grandpa" within an eye wink but hey those people have style compared to the guys of nowadays.

Oh have I mentioned the "guy" colognes of nowadays? You really can't find a manly fragrance anymore, this is one of the reasons why I wear powerhouse fragnances from the 80ties. I freaking LOVE Drakkar Noir and Krizia Uomo!

I think this plays a major part in shaving. It is the feminization of men.
 
I go for the steady state choice. I don't think the market will grow much. Some will come and some will go/I see and know a lot of <30 year olds that like the rough look shave every 3 or 4 days maybe and don't see them investing in $50 razors for limited use. No matter how good the shave is when you only do it that infrequently just go for the quick and easy.
As for Brick and Mortar, yes I see some Williams in the grocery store, Van Der Hagen at Walmart, rarely see blades and that's about it. Even Gillette has the adds with like a month worth of shave from a blade based on not shaving every day.
I continue to enjoy my shaves, use minimal equipment and soaps, and encourage people to give it a try, but rarely get any interest.
 

TexLaw

Fussy Evil Genius
As far as difficulty, you may just need to look around a little more than on the internet. That said, it still can tell us something. In fact, I see

I cannot speak to Wegmans how it may not get any bigger, but HEB is one of the major supermarkets in the Houston area (and it has over 3x as many locations as Wegmans). I did a quick search and see that HEB carries VDH blades and soaps, as well as Gem Blue Star SE blades. I don't know anything about the VDH blades, but they're there.

As far as "doesn't get much bigger," I've already mentioned Wal-Mart, and I could walk right into the nearest Wal-Mart and pick up VDH soap.

Really, I wouldn't expect any supermarket to carry much in the way of brushes or razors, if any, as supermarkets seem much more concerned with consumables, these days. I remember back when grocery stores carried all sorts of toys, socks, and all sorts of things. I don't know if supermarkets are quite the standard for mainstream. Did you look at any drug stores in your area?

I don't see how you can dismiss AoS out of hand, either. They are concerned with their own brand, but they carry a very good selection of DE razors.
 
These are both good points.

I also really believe that one day alcohol based aftershaves won't be available in stores many guys I know don't use it they use balms instead because the aftershave "stings" and it "hurts". It is really funny how guys are being feminized.

ROFL. It does hurt. In what other part of life to people willingly create pain for themselves? :biggrin1:

I go for the steady state choice. I don't think the market will grow much. Some will come and some will go/I see and know a lot of <30 year olds that like the rough look shave every 3 or 4 days maybe and don't see them investing in $50 razors for limited use.

This is a good point to. From what I understand, the three day stubble is "in". And we all know fashion rules the day. And I do believe Gillette talks about shaving 3 - 4 times/week.

Times change. This isn't 1955 anymore and the concept of being totally clean shaven 7 days a week is no longer mainstream.
 
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