Soap Cost

I've been doing this wet shaving thing now for a couple of years. Because of weakness, lack of self denial, and mostly you guys, I have built up quite a collection of soaps. I now own enough soap to last me the rest of my days and have really enjoyed almost all of them. My question, why does a nice natural bath soap cost about $1 for about 5 ounces but the same weight in a nice artisan shaving soap trends around $15? I am now at the 10 year break even point in cost compared to when I was cartridge shaving and am wondering if I have enough time left to break even. I'm sure its a lot of supply and demand., economy of scale, scents, etc. I guess when I think about it, Arko probably only does cost about a buck in Turkey so its possible to make a good performing soap pretty cheaply. Just looking for your thoughts. As a collective of wet shavers, are we paying way too much for what we are getting?

Good question.

I am sure that some of my shave kit will survive me.

If I was simply looking for an effective soap (or cream) to build a good lather for as little money as possible, I would just buy Arko shave sticks in bulk (along with a moisturizing balm). However along with other folks in the wet shaving world, I've enjoyed learning about different shave soaps and shave creams, their characteristics and scents.

Regarding the cost of artisan soaps, I would imagine that they don't enjoy much of an economy of scale compared to the large, quality soap makers. The raw material costs that Soap Commander pays would be different than what Mitchell's Wool Fat pays. Add in the fact that the artisan soap makers market themselves as using more natural ingredients, interact with there customers and of course want to make a living selling shave soap (after paying self-employment taxes, utliities, insurance, postage etc. etc.)....you get the idea.

Factoring in the enjoyment factor, I figure that I'm still way ahead in the game. I've intentionally limited my patronage of a small number of artisans whose shave soap I enjoy. That's not to say that other soap makers also don't make terrific shave soap - it's just that I have only one face that gets shaved each day. I also still love the classic shave soaps and enjoy them as well.

are we paying way too much for what we are getting?

Click to expand...

Probably. I use a lot of williams because I'm cheap.

But when I want to use something fancy, well, I have a few nice pucks around too.

Ranger33 said:

My question is where are you finding a nice natural 5 ounce bath soap for $1?

Click to expand...

+1 ... I was looking at some artisanal bath soap at the supermarket yesterday, these were pre-cut slabs, unwrapped, at $3.50 each. The sign at the side of the display said that the soap was $15 a pound, roughly $1 an ounce.

None of the soaps really appealed to me. They had a lot of oatmeal and sugar and other exfoliant ingredients, and the fragrances were ginger and peach and ocean breeze and other froo-froo flavors. Not what I was looking for at all.

I am looking for a good, upscale bath soap, though. Currently I'm using Trader Joe's TeaTree Oil soap, only $2 for 2 bars. Its effective, it smells decent, it lathers up like crazy ... but I want something better. Preferably something that is available locally, since the cost of shipping will be more than the cost of the soap itself.

We all think our SAD will stop when we find that one soap........ yeah, right.

It is what it is. Even at $15, the cost per shave for a nice soap is very low, so I just lather up and don't think twice about it. You can get lots of good soaps for less than that (see Stirling), so take a look at some of those.

1holegrouper said:

We all think our SAD will stop when we find that one soap........ yeah, right.

Click to expand...

Not me ... I couldn't stand the thought of using the same kit day after day after day.

The whole appeal of wet-shaving to me is having options and variety and choices ... sometimes I debate over which brush and soap and aftershave to use for several hours prior to the actual shave. Sometimes, like today, I didn't know what I would use until I stepped up to the sink.

I have many fine soaps and creams in my collection, but I keep looking for more. I don't necessarily want to find THE ONE SOAP that does it all, I'm just looking for more variety.

I've only found one soap that I could use exclusively, day after day, for the rest of my life. If I were dirt poor, and all I could afford was ARKO, I could live with that. But thank goodness I don't have to.

While I agree some of the artisan soaps seem expensive, for as long as they last me, I'm okay with it. Admittedly, I have way too many soaps, but I have never used one completely.

redrako said:

Good question.

I am sure that some of my shave kit will survive me.

If I was simply looking for an effective soap (or cream) to build a good lather for as little money as possible, I would just buy Arko shave sticks in bulk (along with a moisturizing balm). However along with other folks in the wet shaving world, I've enjoyed learning about different shave soaps and shave creams, their characteristics and scents.

Regarding the cost of artisan soaps, I would imagine that they don't enjoy much of an economy of scale compared to the large, quality soap makers. The raw material costs that Soap Commander pays would be different than what Mitchell's Wool Fat pays. Add in the fact that the artisan soap makers market themselves as using more natural ingredients, interact with there customers and of course want to make a living selling shave soap (after paying self-employment taxes, utliities, insurance, postage etc. etc.)....you get the idea.

Factoring in the enjoyment factor, I figure that I'm still way ahead in the game. I've intentionally limited my patronage of a small number of artisans whose shave soap I enjoy. That's not to say that other soap makers also don't make terrific shave soap - it's just that I have only one face that gets shaved each day. I also still love the classic shave soaps and enjoy them as well.

Click to expand...

+1

Prices of raw materials and transport increase regularly, and eventually those increases will show up as an increase in retail prices. A company with huge production will get a better deal on purchasing in bulk, but they will also have manufacturing costs that a smaller business doesn't have. Bath soap is generally easier to make while the higher cost of a shaving soap might represent more expensive ingredients, or costs of the research (time and materials) spent developing a special formula. Countries like Turkey and China use very cheap labor so aren't a really a fair standard of comparison.

Ranger33 said:

My question is where are you finding a nice natural 5 ounce bath soap for $1?

Click to expand...

Ok, I'm probably exaggerating slightly - Hey, I'm Italian. But seriously, I live near a great county market in Amish country where homemade natural soaps are the norm. Some of the bath soaps are fantastic - and cheap. Since the Amish all have beards, shaving soap, not so much.

steelhead52 said:

Ok, I'm probably exaggerating slightly - Hey, I'm Italian. But seriously, I live near a great county market in Amish country where homemade natural soaps are the norm. Some of the bath soaps are fantastic - and cheap. Since the Amish all have beards, shaving soap, not so much.

Click to expand...

I wonder what the unmarried Amish are using to lather up. I was under the impression that some shaved their mustache area as well, but I could be wrong.

redrako said:

Good question.

I am sure that some of my shave kit will survive me.

If I was simply looking for an effective soap (or cream) to build a good lather for as little money as possible, I would just buy Arko shave sticks in bulk (along with a moisturizing balm). However along with other folks in the wet shaving world, I've enjoyed learning about different shave soaps and shave creams, their characteristics and scents.

Regarding the cost of artisan soaps, I would imagine that they don't enjoy much of an economy of scale compared to the large, quality soap makers. The raw material costs that Soap Commander pays would be different than what Mitchell's Wool Fat pays. Add in the fact that the artisan soap makers market themselves as using more natural ingredients, interact with there customers and of course want to make a living selling shave soap (after paying self-employment taxes, utliities, insurance, postage etc. etc.)....you get the idea.

Factoring in the enjoyment factor, I figure that I'm still way ahead in the game. I've intentionally limited my patronage of a small number of artisans whose shave soap I enjoy. That's not to say that other soap makers also don't make terrific shave soap - it's just that I have only one face that gets shaved each day. I also still love the classic shave soaps and enjoy them as well.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your thoughtful answer. You made me feel a lot better about the awesome shave I had this morning. Now if I could show the restraint to limit my purchases to a few vendors like you, it would be great. I now have the list pruned down to my favorites, but I had to go through about 50 to get there!

redrako said:

Regarding the cost of artisan soaps, I would imagine that they don't enjoy much of an economy of scale compared to the large, quality soap makers. The raw material costs that Soap Commander pays would be different than what Mitchell's Wool Fat pays. Add in the fact that the artisan soap makers market themselves as using more natural ingredients, interact with there customers and of course want to make a living selling shave soap (after paying self-employment taxes, utliities, insurance, postage etc. etc.)....you get the idea.

Click to expand...

Exactly. After running our own small side business for the past couple of years (custom cakes), I can verify this theory. While $15 for 5 oz of soap may seem like a lot, it's never going to be enough by itself to make an artisan vendor independently wealthy. My wife started our cake business because she couldn't believe how much a quality custom cake costs. After two years of doing this, we now understand why they cost so much. We are probably going to scale the business back to a hobby, just so we can continue to do it affordably.

And as to the more natural ingredients, the other reality is that they don't typically use any preservatives, so they can't just buy everything up front at huge bulk discounts and then store it. Because of the limited shelf life of artisan soaps, they have to order just enough quantity to meet current demands, which limits the available scaling discounts.

steelhead52 said:

Thanks for your thoughtful answer. You made me feel a lot better about the awesome shave I had this morning. Now if I could show the restraint to limit my purchases to a few vendors like you, it would be great. I now have the list pruned down to my favorites, but I had to go through about 50 to get there!

Click to expand...

"You made me feel a lot better about the awesome shave I had this morning"

Your welcome. It's enabling like this......(wife just said - "cut it out, your being a....)

gwsmallwood said:

Exactly. After running our own small side business for the past couple of years (custom cakes), I can verify this theory. While $15 for 5 oz of soap may seem like a lot, it's never going to be enough by itself to make an artisan vendor independently wealthy. My wife started our cake business because she couldn't believe how much a quality custom cake costs. After two years of doing this, we now understand why they cost so much. We are probably going to scale the business back to a hobby, just so we can continue to do it affordably.

And as to the more natural ingredients, the other reality is that they don't typically use any preservatives, so they can't just buy everything up front at huge bulk discounts and then store it. Because of the limited shelf life of artisan soaps, they have to order just enough quantity to meet current demands, which limits the available scaling discounts.

Click to expand...

Garret - That sounds interesting (and tasty too). Many people don't get that small artisan businesses are literally an art of love. My wife for years ran a tiny (smaller than small) business on ebay buying and selling costume jewelry that was in the same category.

It is simple: Markup

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/feki45efkll/barrister-mann-shaving-c/

crank said:

It is simple: Markup

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/feki45efkll/barrister-mann-shaving-c/

Click to expand...

They pulled the same accounting BS with Catie's Bubbles (in that same slideshow), deliberately conflating top-line revenue with "sales" as if to imply these artisans are pocketing $18-20k per month.

While I have no doubt both B&M and CB are doing quite well financially, that's just devious wording.

@radrako makes some good points. I'll never begrudge an artisan making a decent living.

redrako said:

Good question.
Regarding the cost of artisan soaps, I would imagine that they don't enjoy much of an economy of scale compared to the large, quality soap makers. The raw material costs that Soap Commander pays would be different than what Mitchell's Wool Fat pays. Add in the fact that the artisan soap makers market themselves as using more natural ingredients, interact with there customers and of course want to make a living selling shave soap (after paying self-employment taxes, utliities, insurance, postage etc. etc.)....you get the idea.

Factoring in the enjoyment factor, I figure that I'm still way ahead in the game. I've intentionally limited my patronage of a small number of artisans whose shave soap I enjoy. That's not to say that other soap makers also don't make terrific shave soap - it's just that I have only one face that gets shaved each day. I also still love the classic shave soaps and enjoy them as well.

Click to expand...

Any "crafted" soap is going to be more expensive for at least two reasons:
1. It has snob appeal, for which people are willing to pay.
2. It is made with a variety of ingredients, bought in small lots and combined in small batches, with very little automation or large-scale machining, which necessitates a higher markup as part of making a living and a decent profit.

Megastore brands are machined to the max. As part of keeping shelf space at Walmart, the manufacturers MUST reduce cost to the retailer by some dictated percent from year to year. Artisans to not have to meet such demands, nor are they set up to do so.

Going back to Arko as an example, Arko is made by Evyap, which is a Turkish equivalent to P&G. Evyap uses state-of-the-art manufacturing facilities and its economy-priced products, such as Arko, are priced for budgets of a not-so-rich population, as well as tradition-driven barbershops. Open a puck of Arko and you get the smell of simple unpretentious SOAP and not some formulation of hoity-toity gimmickry. Read the polarized reviews of Arko. Some like the smell, some do not. Those who use it tend to agree it's a cheap but effective lather.

Personally, I have bought only one tub of artisan soap and I have not even used it yet. I discovered Arko in the interim and have since had no desire to buy any other shave soap.

Bona Fide said:

They pulled the same accounting BS with Catie's Bubbles (in that same slideshow), deliberately conflating top-line revenue with "sales" as if to imply these artisans are pocketing $18-20k per month.

While I have no doubt both B&M and CB are doing quite well financially, that's just devious wording.

Click to expand...

Word. Top line sales has nothing to do with bottom line income. Assuming a generous 25% profit margin, and that $20k a month translates to only $60k a year in income for the owner. That's not chump change, but it's certainly not a gold mine either.