Badger Brush (shedding) ~ Question on restored brush with knot from TGN

I know there are many posts about shedding brushes, and I have been through too many to count looking for an answer, but here is the situation I face:

I have been using shave brushes for about 8 years now, until about two years ago (or so) I only had purchased cheep(er) brushes, usually made by Van der Hagen (both boar and badger) because they were readily available. Each of these "cheep" brushes would last about 9-12 months before they would begin shedding profusely and I would need to discard them; I chalked this up to the brushes just being "cheap."

About 5 months ago I restored one of these (used) brushes; I used a "20mm Silvertip Grade A" knot from The Golden Nib in a old Van de Hagen "Luxury" base [the shiny black one with the silver metal collar] using the epoxy sold on TGN. The top of the knot base was probably about 1mm just below the metal collar. After completion, the normal break-in shedding occurred for the first week or so, and then the brush was really nice. (Actually, it was really, really, really nice.) Now, in the past week, after about 5 months use, the brush has begun to lose 15-20 hairs each time I use it!

I can't figure out why this is happening, did I do something wrong when restoring the brush that would cause this? Am I using the brush wrong? Over the years I have slowly learned about the "proper use & care" of brushes, as I have come to understand it. Here are the points I keep in mind when using or caring for the brushes I have...can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong/what is going on to cause such shedding all of a sudden?

• I let the brush soap, 3/4 the way up the bristle to the handle, in warm (not hot) water for 5-8 minutes as I shower.
• I gently rinse it out, get some soap on it, build a lather and apply.
• When lathering, or creating lather, I try to only use the tips of the brush and try to avoid applying a lot of pressure. (By its nature, I have noticed the brush builds up large amounts of lather though the bristle all the way to the handle.)
• I shave and before I rinse my face off, I carefully rinse out the brush through and through, gently squeeze excess water out, fluff/fan with a clean dry cloth, and give a couple shakes to get some lurking water out of the knot base. (All done in this order)
• Once a week I use some dish soap to clean the brush. I usually do so after a shave while the bristles are relaxed. I add some soap to the tips of the bristle, massage/lather it in my hand, let the brush soak in warm water a minute or two, and rinse under warm running water. Then I let the brush soak for about a minute in a diluted borax solution, rinse and dry (as listed above).
• I have used a number of shave soaps; I don't remember which ones I have "tried" out. Is there a type I should avoid?
• I usually rotate though 3 brushes to ensure proper drying between uses. The exception would be the first few months after I restored the brush since I wanted to "break it in" as well as just enjoyed it so much.

Any help/suggestions appreciated. Also, any suggestions on how I can stop the shedding from happening?

- Joe

Some knots are born to shed, it sounds like you might have found one. Have you tried combing the brush to greet am the loose hairs out?

Thanks for your response RJ:

I don't really think that it is a knot "born to shed" since it did not do so for about 4 months of its life. Then it started, a couple hairs...then a couple more the next time...then about 10... and now about 15-20 each time. It has been holding steady at losing about 15-20 each time.

I have tried combing. It took loose hairs out, but that didn't really help, it still keeps shedding.

- Joe

Your brush care regime looks very thorough — in fact I thought it might be a bit excessive. In particular, I wondered if washing with dish soap and borax with such frequency might not weaken the hairs. I do occasionally wash my brushes in dish soap, or a specialist brush soap, but it's more like once every six months than once a week.

Welcome to the forum, JG! B&B also has a Shaving Brush sub-forum, as well as a Brush Restoration sub-forum, so if you see your post moved by a Mod, not to worry.

I've used about a dozen TGN knots in restorations and haven't had any of them shed beyond break-in, but one thing about your restore that caught my eye - it's common to set the base of the glue plug 15mm deep, or so. Many restorers recommend sinking the base of the knot 1/2 the diameter of the hole, so if you have a 24mm knot, you'd sink it 12. Others set to a particular loft, and many aim for 47-52mm, which would mean sinking deeper if you have a 65mm knot height (typical for TGN). Less shallow and your knot will splay when lathering and won't have nearly the backbone most like when applied to your face.

When you say yours is installed with "the top of the knot base" about 1mm below the collar, I'm wondering if hairs are breaking at the base due to lack of support, hairs being flexed right at the glue plug with your lathering action.

Purely speculation on my part, so I could easily be way off base, I've just never had a TGN knot fail like yours seems to be doing, and your lathering/cleaning regimen seems to be much more caring than most.

Oops, my bad, I meant to type 4mm. I hit the "1" key just below the "4" key on the number pad. Never the less, this could be part of the issue since the glue plug was about 4mm thick (if memory serves me correct) so I would still be shy by about 3-4mm from the general rule of depth you noted.

I remember researching how deep to sink the plug on B&B from things others had posted back when I was ordering a plug and at the time I felt confident that the measurements were correct but I may not have installed it deep enough.

One other thing I have come across on the site indicates using a circular motion could cause damage to the hairs and cause the brush to shed. I have traditionally used a circular motion to create lather and more of a brushing motion to apply it. Any thoughts on this causing the brush to shed?

Been using a circular motion the vast majority of the time for the last dozen years - first brush lasted 10 years, and then I found B&B, options, ebay, etc., etc. The original AOS brush is still in great shape, FWIW, but my "collection" has grown a bit lately <lol>

Cumberland Sausage said:

Your brush care regime looks very thorough — in fact I thought it might be a bit excessive. In particular, I wondered if washing with dish soap and borax with such frequency might not weaken the hairs. I do occasionally wash my brushes in dish soap, or a specialist brush soap, but it's more like once every six months than once a week.

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Cumberland,

Thanks for your suggestion. I had of picked up the routine over the years based off of other recommendations people had made in other posts. I can easily give this a try, just skip a few weeks.


Does any one else collaborate Cumberland's thought or have experiences with proper care methodologies, timing, and pitfalls in regards to this topic?

ks6c said:

Been using a circular motion the vast majority of the time for the last dozen years - first brush lasted 10 years <lol>

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That was my understanding from many other people as well as I learned to use a shave brush over the years...

JoeGlock said:

Cumberland,

Thanks for your suggestion. I had of picked up the routine over the years based off of other recommendations people had made in other posts. I can easily give this a try, just skip a few weeks.


Does any one else collaborate Cumberland's thought or have experiences with proper care methodologies, timing, and pitfalls in regards to this topic?

Click to expand...

As I understand it, brushes don't need such frequent special washings. The most frequently I have heard of doing a special wash (usually a shampoo wash with vinegar rinse and maybe a hair conditioner finish) is monthly IF you experience hard water related issues. Some will swear that borax is bad for a brush others will say it is no big deal.

I am inclined to think your issue is more likely attributed to the installed depth of the knot as noted above (that just sounds most reasonable) but the frequency of borax soaks may have weakened the glue hold hairs in the knot (this is just a guess, I wouldn't know if this is possible)