$389 ... gulp! (lousy weak dollar ... )

Silverwing ... must be made of gold!

The new TI Silverwings are "in" at Classicshaving ... http://www.classicshaving.com/catalog/item/846013/5834420.htm ... but man oh man are they expensive. That's almost TIPTLE range there, folks.

Classic also has the TI damascus razors in stock... Makes the TIPTLE look like a Zeepk...

Actually the Silverwing is quite a good shaver once its tuned up (which like all hard razors can take a little while), and the best-made TI I've ever owned, so there's some hope that the new equipment really is doing the trick. I've always been a sucker for hard steel, and I'd really like to see them make their 6/8 heavy-spined Eagle razors with this steel.

Which lousy weak dollar are you referring to?

rickw said:

Which lousy weak dollar are you referring to?

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The US dollar, compared to Euros.

For that much you can get a basic custom from the usual suspects. The silverwing wouldn't even be in the same league as those.

For $389 I'd pass in a big way. $350 (what I paid) was the upper limit. Truth is, the sales aren't very expensive, and the blade is the same steel to be used in all of their future razors - so you're paying for the box and the "silverwing" inlay.

I really enjoy mine - but for about $400 - i'd take a TIPLE or a Bill Ellis over the silverwing ANY day.

Are TIPTLE's available anymore? Or would one just have to get lucky and find a used one...?

They"re still available though the vendors are saying that the factory claims to be out so this is it. I think both Classicshaving.com and Rasurpur.de have them.

joel said:

For $389 I'd pass in a big way. $350 (what I paid) was the upper limit. Truth is, the sales aren't very expensive, and the blade is the same steel to be used in all of their future razors - so you're paying for the box and the "silverwing" inlay.

I really enjoy mine - but for about $400 - i'd take a TIPLE or a Bill Ellis over the silverwing ANY day.

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Anybody have any idea when the new steel will be used on the "standard" TIs??

NeckShaver said:

Anybody have any idea when the new steel will be used on the "standard" TIs??

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Some are already available.

it is my understanding that the new steel's most valuable asset is the high carbon level of the steel, but does anybody know that the level of carbon is any higher than a vintage blade? And doesn't the level of carbon in fact make it softer? And that's why stainless is harder than HCS?

Weak $= Strong £= Cheaper razors for us Brits from the US

Genco_Glider said:

it is my understanding that the new steel's most valuable asset is the high carbon level of the steel, but does anybody know that the level of carbon is any higher than a vintage blade? And doesn't the level of carbon in fact make it softer? And that's why stainless is harder than HCS?

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe SS is stronger i.e. more resistent to breaking and more malleable but not necessarily harder. Where as CS is harder, more brittle, less malleable and thus able to take a finer edge. I think

Genco_Glider said:

it is my understanding that the new steel's most valuable asset is the high carbon level of the steel, but does anybody know that the level of carbon is any higher than a vintage blade? And doesn't the level of carbon in fact make it softer? And that's why stainless is harder than HCS?

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The eutectic point for carbon and iron is about 0.86% - at this concentration, a molten mixture of both the iron and carbon will cause both elements to freeze at exactly the same temperature. Below this concentration the iron freezes first, trapping the molten carbon in its matrix, which is fine. Above this concentration (hypereutectic) and the carbon starts freezing first, and the excess carbon precipitates out of the molten iron as carbide or graphite, leaving behind the eutectic concentration of approx 0.86% carbon in solution to harden along with the iron. Both the carbides and graphite weaken the structure of the steel, but the small granules of carbide are abrasion resistant and help protect surrounding steel from wear, which is useful in things like drill bits and other uses where steel is under a lot of wear or potentially gets very hot, and in those situations it is sufficiently useful to be actually desirable. But for our uses, the wear-resistant carbides mostly make honing difficult.

Both the previous-generation TI steel and the silverwing steel (which TI calls "carbonsong steel") are hypereutectic, but the newer steel is more hypereutectic than the older steel and forms more carbides. TIs have long had a reputation for being hard to hone, and I'm pretty sure this is due to the carbides. The silverwing steel is even more difficult to hone than the old steel, more difficult even than stainless.

Stainless steel can't be hardened as much as the best carbon steel. Really good stainless usually only gets to the low 60's on the rockwell scale. But even though it tends to be softer, stainless is generally harder to hone than carbon steel razors because the chromium in stainless steel tends to produce lots of carbides.

The reason stainless razors tend to hold their edge longer isn't because they're harder but because they're more corrosion resistant; its just that both the corrosion resistance and the honing difficulty are due to the chromium. Corrosion resistance is obviously a useful feature in an implement that will be regularly exposed to water, salt and acids from the skin, and alkalines from the soap. Whether it's worth the cost of softer steel is a matter of personal preference.

Edit: We are all familiar with adding salt to water to change its boiling point and freezing point. This is the same thing that happens when we mix carbon and steel, but with steel the effects on both the iron and carbon freezing and melting points are important.