Gonna Give Honing a Shot

Since I have some Amazon gift cards that SWMBO encouraged me to spend on "whatever I want", I just pulled the trigger on some lapping film and a $9 Gold Dollar, plus a 30x lighted loupe that they threw in for $2.99.

I have been reading so much here about honing with lapping film, and SWMBO doesn't want me laying out big bucks on new razors, so I think I am ready to take a crack at it myself. Plus, I already have the marble edge tiles coming to my local hope depot.

A couple questions, and feel free to move this if I am in the wrong place:

Do I need to ruin the edge on the GD on a mirror or something before I start setting my bevel? I want to try the whole process from start to finish, and if this is a good way to "reset" the razor then I can get lots of practice it.

What is the best way to remove the shoulders of the blade? I have used my Dremel for removing metal from the trigger bar on my Sea Service flintlock pistol. Would a grinding bit be the best bet for this application?

Congrats on learning to hone.

You won't need to dull the Gold Dollar lol, it will be dull enough when it arrives. First, check the spine with a real straight edge for warps and bends. This is why you should always buy at least 4!

The "edge" as far as I can tell is "honed" with the spine off the wheel, so whatever edge that's on it will be at a steeper angle than you'll get with the spine on the hone.Tape the EDGE and hone the spine until you have a continuous hone wear pattern all along the spine on both sides. Thinning the spine is not a bad thing on Gold Dollars.

Remove the tape and have at it until the bevel is set. Film probably is not the best at this point, but a cheap oilstone or waterstone will work.After the edge passes inspection under magnification and a bevel set test of your choice, then go to the film and hone normally.

All of the 208s I've gotten lately have been overground on the show side heel and need a lot of work there, so check to see that the hone is hitting the last 1/4" or so of the heel. You'll have to put extra emphasis on the heel (and maybe toe) if it's weak.

Cheers, Steve

Thanks!

Hey Jim, good luck with this new adventure. FYI, I use film to keep my edges going once stropping seems insufficient. Once the bevel has been set, as it obviously is on the Tank, barring any sink mishaps, etc., it shouldn't need to be reset, unless you want your own handiwork start to finish. Film should keep it going just fine.

You might also find this thread helpful:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/283576-Lapping-film-try-it

Thanks, Larry! That's actually one of the threads that caught my attention before, so it's great to see it recommended. I am loving the edge on the Tank, and want to try doing the whole process on a fresh blade, just to see what I can do with it.

WildWest74 said:

Thanks, Larry! That's actually one of the threads that caught my attention before, so it's great to see it recommended. I am loving the edge on the Tank, and want to try doing the whole process on a fresh blade, just to see what I can do with it.

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It might be a while before you notice a difference, but the Tank was honed on a natural stone (either a coticule or more likely a jnat), which produces a different looking and feeling edge than film.

Re that rabbit hole I asked about, . . . .

Steve56 said:

Tape the EDGE and hone the spine until you have a continuous hone wear pattern all along the spine on both sides. Thinning the spine is not a bad thing on Gold Dollars.

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Which direction should the razor be facing when I am doing this? Sliding spine first or edge first?

WildWest74 said:

Which direction should the razor be facing when I am doing this? Sliding spine first or edge first?

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Doesn't matter at this stage, I usually just use a back and forth. The edge is getting little (or no if it's taped) of anything, you're just trying to get a smooth even spine so you'll get a smooth even bevel - or would if they were ground properly at the heel and maybe toe. I really just tape the edge to protect it and me while I'm smoothing and straightening the spine.

Cheers, Steve

Awesome advice. Thanks!

Oh, you poor poor boy. Welcome to the REALLY deep water in the whole world of straights: hones.

As stated it's another Deep Rabbit Hole

Well, I told SWMBO what I have coming and I am still breathing, so that's a good sign!

I'll throw my two cents in. Or more like two dollars, actually.

A Gold Dollar #66 should cost under $5, free shipping. My guy is BuyInCoins. I bought them in quantity for $3.07 ea, free shipping on the slow boat from China.

The first thing I do is unpin. I stand a file up in the vise, and hold the razor against it, looking at the daylight between scales and file, above and below the pin head. No sense scoring up the scales. They are ugly as a politician's soul, but they are pretty tough, and you might just want to re-use them. Anyway, work the pin head up and down against the file, watching your daylight. When you are down into the washer, take a small screwdriver and stick it between tang and scale, near the pivot. Give it a gentle twist and it should pop off.

Next thing I do is re-profile the heel, on a belt sander. Bam. Done. No diddling around with a dremel for me. I use the "dragster" style belt sander, with a very small roller at the front end. Just the right radius. While I am at it, I hold the tang against the flat of the belt and get rid of those cheesy sloppy jimps. Don't take all the heel steel off that you will remove... as you sand the blade freehand, near the edges of the steel you will get a lot of thinning. Let the excessive thinning be on steel that still has to be removed. Also, You will probably overheat the edge because you don't believe me when I say it only takes about 1.6 seconds to get too much heat on thin steel. So let this ruined steel be steel that is going to come off, too. What we are really doing is reducing the amount of steel that must be removed when fairing the blade and tang together in a nice swoopy curvy smoothnessification.

The next thing I do is thin the shank. Yes, the shank. Why? Because after thinning the spine, the shank which is already monstrously thick and shoulder/y, will be even more so. My goal is when all is said and done, to be able to slightly over-run the blade onto the honing surface, and not have the shank shoulder the heel end up and force the toe down onto the hone. So still on the belt sander, I thin that puppy right on down, eliminating the cheesy Gold Dollar stamp in the process. I also de-horn and smooth all the corners and edges while I'm at it. This is heavy steel. Just hold it against the belt and move it in lazy circles until it is uncomfortably hot, then after it cools do the other side. Repeat as necessary.

It is good to do at least 10 razors at a time, so you are not wasting all that cooling time. Pick one up and do it, put it down and do the next and next and next etc and then back to the first one again. Oh, and of course you have to mount the belt sander in an appropriate position. I use a bench vise. ALWAYS use proper eye protection! Goggles, or full face shield, or safety glasses AND a face shield. Never jsut safety glasses alone. I like to use a long sleeve denim jacket and leather gloves wit the fingers cut off. If the sander gets away and goes berserk your garnet rash won't be as bad.

Okay, the tang is thinner. Now to create a smooth transition between blade and tang. Once again, the small roller at the front end of the belt sander comes into play. It is just right for fitting up into the hollow grind under the spine. With the razor parallel to the front roller, carefully bring it down onto it and start working it side to side. IOW, pushing and pulling the tang by the monkeytail. You are removing all vestiges of shoulder and blending everything together.

Almost done with the heavy work. Now to thin the spine. Carefully adjust the running belt so that it is at the limit of travel left or right, exposing as much of the platen as possible. Thats the smooth steel that supports the mid portion of the belt and keeps it flat. Now apply the edge to the platen and let the spine touch the running belt. Same number of seconds on both sides. Use your sharpie to gauge yoru progress. You want all the old spine surface totally gone, and that is just for starters. These razors out of the box have about a 19.5 degree bevel angle. When we straighten out the edge without serious spine thinning we end up with about a 21 degree bevel. I have pocketknives with a sharper bevel than that. Read up elsewhere on bevel geometry. Maybe I will resurrect my old bevel thread later. Anyway, another curious thing about having the edge on the platen and spine on the belt is you are getting more relief on the part of the spine right next to the hollow grind. That's good, because this essentially widens the blade as it thins the spine, and removes steel that we will remove when we push the hollow grind up higher into the spine.

We are also taking care of warp and assymetry issues. By keeping the edge against the platen and not letting it rock, we are straightening the spine to match the mid portion of the edge. This will be very important later, when we do the preliminary bevel set, where we will then make the edge agree with the spine.

Okay... spine thin? Now go and thin the shank some more lol! Okay, put the razor to a coarse hone and run the blade well up onto the hone and see if the shank hits the hone. If it doesn't, then you are good.

Last bit of serious belt sander work... dig out a little more hollow. Just like before when you faired the shoulder away, but the pressure is a bit different. Use your sharpie a lot. You will see where you need to add emphasis. Also keep that transition smooth.

Now if you like you can get rid of that 100 or 120 grit belt and put on a 320 or 400, and smooth things up a bit. Take your time.

Optionally, you can re-profile the nose. It will need to be done later anyway, and doing it now saves on steel that needs hand sanding. but remember why we did not complete the re-profile of the heel? Same thing goes. Don't take all the steel just yet... save some for later removal.

I like the final swoop to be about a 45 degree angle, and I like to match the nose angle to the heel angle. You can also copy a kamisori swoop and leave the nose more or less intact. Do it like you feel it. Or even a reverse swoop. Whatevah.

Now the real work begins.. hand sanding. First, do the hollow grind and where you faired it into the tang. Take a small piece of 100 grit and wrap it around a piece of garden hose about as long as the blade. Apply some tape to your workbench to rest the blade on. Or not, whatever. Rest the blade on the bench and run the sandpaper wrapped hose section up and down along the blade, pushing it firmly up into the hollow grind, and running it well down the tang. Keep it up, like forever. Both sides. For more digging action, take the sharpie that you have used up the ink from, and remove the guts from the barrel, and use that for a sanding form instead of the garden hose. The small end toward the tang, so it ramps up onto it nicely. When all of your grind marks are gone from both sides, do the rest of the tang. Try to smooth everything nice and clean and curvy. Don't apply 100 grit to the thin part of the blade, no. The scratches will be too deep into that thin steel. Do all the thick steel, though, and get rid of all grind marks whether factory grind or your own.

Now go to 120 grit. Get rid of all the 100 grit scratches. ALL of them.

Now 150 grit. Get rid of all the 120 grit scratches. ALL of them. There must be NO 100 grit scratches or you will be forever. If you find what seems to be 100 grit scratches STOP the 150 and go back to 120 or you will be forever.

Now 220 grit. Get rid of all the 150 grit scratches. ALL of them. There must be no 100 grit or 120 grit scratches, only 150, for the 220 to do its job. See a pattern developing here?

At the 220 grit stage you can start doing the thin part of the blade. The difference here is you must BARELY get rid of the previous scratches, when doing the thin steel. It is okay at this stage to see faint signs of old scratches. You don't have much steel to work with and 220 is still cutting pretty deep.

The hose works pretty good but another technique is to take a strip of sandpaper about 1/3 sheet width long and 1" wide, fold it over the spine or tang, and pinch the blade with thumb and forefinger between the fold of the sandpaper, and slide it along the razor.

After the 320 grit stage, time to set the preliminary bevel. Tape your spine if there is any question of it being thin enough. Otherwise just hone, putting plenty of pressure at the edge. Go ahead, use some pressure. 320 grit paper stuck to a tile works great as a bevel setter here. Use the burr method. It is faster. Do sets of 50 circle strokes or half laps whatever you want to call them, on each side. Feel for the burr each time you complete a set. Use your sharpie, too. It's fun if nothing else. When you have made a nice straight edge and have a burr end to end, give it sets of 10, then 5, then 40 regular laps to get rid of the burr. Now if you like you can measure your spine thickness, and bevel width, and calculate your bevel angle. But at this stage you probably just want to go with whatever you got rather than try to bully it into your idea of perfection.

At this point you can revisit your belt sander and CAREFULLY finish your profiling on a 400 grit belt.

400 grit.
600.
800.
1000
1500
2000
2500

If you did everything right, your razor now has nice smooth lines and curves everywhere, the spine is aligned with the edge, and the surface has a nice luster but not a mirror polish. You can go with that, or you can go for the mirror look. Take some old 5u and 3u film and continue the polishing. By this stage, ALL marks should be gone. You are just polishing out the previous stage scratches.

1u diamond paste
.5u diamond paste
.25u diamond paste
.1u diamond paste.

Now do any electro etching or chemical etching you care to do, and pin it in a pair of scales.

Hone.
Strop.
Take pics
Shave.

Here is one of a series I am doing right now. All preliminary grinding with the belt sander is done, and hand sanding is next.

Wow, Slash. I am humbled by your level of knowledge and how much you shared. Looks like I will be putting some tools on the ol' Xmas list!

Thank you SO much for this insight. Maybe someday I can PIF razors to folks the way you do.

Did I mention I frickin' LOVE this forum?

WildWest74 said:

Wow, Slash. I am humbled by your level of knowledge and how much you shared. Looks like I will be putting some tools on the ol' Xmas list!

Thank you SO much for this insight. Maybe someday I can PIF razors to folks the way you do.

Did I mention I frickin' LOVE this forum?

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If you are as picky as me, you will have lots of "rejects" to PIF. But when you get that one perfect flawless one, it is bliss. And you need to start ordering by the dozen, yeah. Not many tools needed, actually. Your honing equipment, a dragster belt sander, a Dremel, honing supplies, and lots of sandpaper which you should get online, for the variety and the prices. You can't get a 3x21 1000 grit belt sander belt at Hone Depot.

Everything I know about these razors, I learned from this forum, or from just doing it and experimenting, based on the knowledge I got from the guys here. My knowledge is all second hand.

Get some practice now, and you will be ready to enter the Gold Dollar mod contest in 2016!



This is the first one in the same series. It is at the 320 grit stage. Preliminary bevel is set. Final profiling not done yet but you can get an idea.

BTW, I usually hone with lapping film, too. It totally rocks.

Slash McCoy said:

If you are as picky as me, you will have lots of "rejects" to PIF. But when you get that one perfect flawless one, it is bliss. And you need to start ordering by the dozen, yeah. Not many tools needed, actually. Your honing equipment, a dragster belt sander, a Dremel, honing supplies, and lots of sandpaper which you should get online, for the variety and the prices. You can't get a 3x21 1000 grit belt sander belt at Hone Depot.

Everything I know about these razors, I learned from this forum, or from just doing it and experimenting, based on the knowledge I got from the guys here. My knowledge is all second hand.

Get some practice now, and you will be ready to enter the Gold Dollar mod contest in 2016!

View attachment 596570

This is the first one in the same series. It is at the 320 grit stage. Preliminary bevel is set. Final profiling not done yet but you can get an idea.

BTW, I usually hone with lapping film, too. It totally rocks.

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You inspire me, sir! That's why I will be rocking the film. I need to get a vise, as well.

jez foster said:

......... or you could just hone it and shave with it!!

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Indeed. Be my guest!

Slash, you may have awakened the beast in me. I'm so meticulous that I used to paint custom helmets for the pilot figures in my model aircraft... at 1/72 scale and smaller. So all your advice was priceless! I don't have a garage, so I am planning where in the house SWMBO would put up with me setting up a bench. She keeps looking at me funny, probably because I am grinning as I reread your post!

WildWest74 said:

Slash, you may have awakened the beast in me. I'm so meticulous that I used to paint custom helmets for the pilot figures in my model aircraft... at 1/72 scale and smaller. So all your advice was priceless! I don't have a garage, so I am planning where in the house SWMBO would put up with me setting up a bench. She keeps looking at me funny, probably because I am grinning as I reread your post!

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