a honing issue, im not sure the cause.

so lately as my skills have been improving im noticing a problem here that pops up every once in a while. ill hone a razor start-finish then shave with it and some parts of the blade just wont be shaving right so ill scope it with my usb microscope and see this.... first pic is a W&B wedge honed on a progression of 1k chosera 3k/8k/12k naniwa's



another pic of a gd66 same progression



also to note, i have yet to see this problem with natural stones(coticule/jnat) and ive since finished both razors on a jnat and both shave well.

I'll hazard a WAG - and that's what it is, too much pressure. The edge of a straight is extremely thin, if you put a bit too much pressure on it, it can flex and presto, you're sharpening the upper part of the bevel rather than the apex. Lighten up and see if there's a difference.

Cheers, Steve

Steve makes a good point. I hope light pressure fixes it. Maybe rework the 8k then the minimum required at 12k.

But I ask whether or not the bevel at 1k ever got to the edge? Maybe someone better at reading these images can weigh in.

Steve56 said:

I'll hazard a WAG - and that's what it is, too much pressure. The edge of a straight is extremely thin, if you put a bit too much pressure on it, it can flex and presto, you're sharpening the upper part of the bevel rather than the apex. Lighten up and see if there's a difference.

Cheers, Steve

Click to expand...

could be. its just weird because i would just wail on blades when i started and never noticed this issue. lately my pressure has definitely lightened up.

aven- both razors passed cherry tomato test on the 1k. then i went 3/8/12. after it wouldnt cut hair in the aforementioned sections of the blade. so i scope them and thats what i saw. the W&B(top picture) shaved very well in all parts except a tiny section. it felt off. thats the section in the pic.

Neither blade a thinly ground hollow and honed with light pressure, has to be the bevel was not completely set in those areas of the edge.

I started using a Swift Collegiate microscope 100X mag with very good definition on all my edges and it has really helped me to calibrate my bevel set tests, as well as diagnosing a multitude of other problems.
Yes it takes more time to observe edges as they develop with a microscope but not only have my edges improved so has my understanding of what I am seeing as it relates to how the edge shaves.

As a +1 to frank, do you see the far left of the second pic? That little micro chip? Most likely a sign the bevel is t set all the way. When you're on the 1K, there's nothing wrong with a little pressure, but adding a little torque is more important. You can still lighten up on the pressure and introduce a tad more torque to get the edge hitting. I've had a few pass the cherry tomato test but still not quite tree top hairs like id like. It ain't done till its done.... Unfortunately.

It's hard to be sure looking at a single scope pic, because it can vary a lot with the magnification and angle of the light, etc. But if we can see two shots taken at the same time in the same scope, one of the bad part of the blade and one of a good part, it might be possible to see a difference between the two.

I wouldn't rely on the tomato test, btw, as it's possible to pass that and still have one side of the bevel not honed all the way to the edge.

Best,
Alan

ok guys. ill make sure to give it some extra time on the 1k.

honestly that makes sense too because i used to beat the crap out of blades on the 1k and never saw this issue. now im at the point where the feedback is dictating when im done so i check with cherry tomato and it usually passes, im not spending even 25% of the time on the 1k as i used to. ill just make sure to give it a little extra and make absolutely certain its set.

Is your 1k nice and flat? A bevel setter gets a lot of pressure and might dish faster than finishing stones.

You might try 1k or 2k wet/dry paper carefully stuck to a polished marble tile or heavy pane of glass, to reset the bevel. Light pressure, since the bevel is basically set already. Avoid deformation of the edge. An ultra flat bevel let's the finishing film or rocks get at the edge better. You only need heavy pressure when removing a lot of steel, and even then you should lighten up the pressure before progressing to the next grit.

You might also try more time on the second stone in your progression. Look for the feedback and then go a few dozen light light light laps beyond it. That will set up your edge for your finishers.

Are you using tape? Tape and pressure can end up like this IMO. The tape wears faster then the tempered steel edge. Especially if using a lot of pressure.

Edit: I just realized this thread is a few weeks old, but still...

Slash McCoy said:

Is your 1k nice and flat? A bevel setter gets a lot of pressure and might dish faster than finishing stones.

You might try 1k or 2k wet/dry paper carefully stuck to a polished marble tile or heavy pane of glass, to reset the bevel. Light pressure, since the bevel is basically set already. Avoid deformation of the edge. An ultra flat bevel let's the finishing film or rocks get at the edge better. You only need heavy pressure when removing a lot of steel, and even then you should lighten up the pressure before progressing to the next grit.

You might also try more time on the second stone in your progression. Look for the feedback and then go a few dozen light light light laps beyond it. That will set up your edge for your finishers.

Click to expand...

I think you need to check how flat your stones are especially the bevel setter, with the naturals the slurry might help sharpening all the blade.

I can't give you an accurate read of your pictures due to a lot of variables mainly the lighting, however if I saw these pictures under my scope I would like say that my stones aren't flat due to the presence of the white uneven line at the very edge, but that can be just a false edge of that why it is difficult to judge it's only an assumption.

Flatten the stones out and see how it goes...

Also as Steve said you need to monitor your prussere, it is hard to quantify as the grind and the steel hardness vary from razor to another, the most important thing is don't push the blade to it flexing point.

My advice on the prussere while setting the bevel is take your time don't rush it once you put a nice bevel on the blade no need to reset another everytime with no reason for that, there is many professional honers ( the people who make money out of honing razors ) take the time factor seriously as the have to set 50 bevel or so a week or day, that's why they teach honing with pressure, speed ...etc in their videos.

Regards,
Abdulmajeed.