Animal or vegetable?

I've been sitting here thinking (after a great shave of course...) about shaving soap.

My current soap rotation includes 3 tallow-based soaps (MWF, Tabac, and Cella) and 2 vegetable-based (Captain's Choice by Razorock and Bebelush Barbershop Shave Soap) and I'm in the middle of week-long evaluation testing sessions (forcing me to do daily shaves...what a sacrifice!) of each one.

I've always believed that tallow-based soaps were "better"...no particular reason, other than, as a long-time user of Williams Mug Soap, I liked the "face feel" and slickness. Then, graduating from WMS to much better soaps, I still liked the performance of the tallow soaps.

Then I got a puck of VDH Deluxe (my first non-WMS soap) and was generally pleased with that. The current "veggies" (CC/Razorock and Bebelush) were recent Christmas acquisitions, and I've been very happy with their latherability and performance (slickness and face-feel).

My current feeling is that I don't see a tremendous difference between veggie and tallow soaps. All the ones in my current rotation are keepers, IMHO. If I had to pick an overall winner it would be Tabac, followed by MWF and Cella. So...I seem to be "tallow-biased," but that may just be because of more use and familiarity. I would certainly be OK if forced to use either of my veggies.

What's the consensus? general preferences and opinions on tallow vs. veggie.

I know, I know..."consensus" is a foreign concept on B&B...but discussion certainly is not.

Thoughts?

Mineral for me.

I've used vegan soaps with the same great shave and post-shave characteristics as tallow - WhollyKaw and Soap Commander come to mind immediately. I reject the idea that a soap NEEDS tallow to achieve a great lather and moisturizing post-shave feel.

ouch said:

Mineral for me.

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Hmmm...must look for a soap with sand? mica? maybe Mudder Focker...

I stopped collecting soaps when I got Arko. After Arko, no other soap is needed. It is cheap and good; lathers well. Arko has tallow, so I vote tallow. For those who are not as stubborn and closed-minded as myself, vegetable has any number of merits. Many European shaving products, particularly the ones made in Britain, were forced to abandon tallow and go vegetable many years ago due to export restrictions that were driven by the Mad Cow scare. Therefore, some massive multi-point second-effort was made to duplicate the benefits of tallow without actually using tallow, so it is entirely possible that the product often works the same without animal-derived ingredients.

I have and like both but I don't have a preference either way. What I can say is I like companies that offer both styles; B&M and Tiki come to mind.

Depends on the soap.

If you blindfolded me and asked me to choose a soap knowing only whether it was veggie or tallow, I'd pick tallow. Tallow just works. But I've used plenty of veggie soaps that are just as good, if not better, than their tallow counterparts.

It doesn't matter. Some of the best soaps in the world are veggie.

I also think some of the soaps we think are veggie are actually animal based. They might list stearic acid instead of tallow for their fat, but that stearic acid is pronounced STEER-ic for a historic reason.

Found this on Wikipedia:

Its name comes from the Greek word στέαρ "stéar", which means tallow.

Yeppers.

I have often looked at a steer in a paddock and thought "mmmm, I bet that he would taste good" but I am yet to wonder how good the grass that he was eating would taste...

I tend to rate my 5 Harris soaps as Tier 1, RazoRock CC Bay Rum & Cade as Tier II and my 4 SRD glycerin soaps as Tier III, but truthfully I don't find much difference between them. I can get just as good a shave with SRD as Harris. My soap choice these days is more based on scent than type.

My preference is with tallow-based soaps as the lather is just a bit more 'substantial and creamier', and my favourite artisan only makes this type of soap!

I tend to prefer tallow also, but have some great veggies too!

njpaddy said:

I tend to rate my 5 Harris soaps as Tier 1...

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I only have 2, Lavender and Arlington, and I like them both. If I'm not mistaken DRH is the only British company (the 3 Ts anyway) that didn't reformulate from tallow to vegan. I only have 1 other English soap, a Geo F. Trumper Almond I bought on the old B/S/T, that I've never unwrapped from the cellophane.

Sir, this topic has already been discussed many times here on B&B and many of us do agree on the fact that a quality soap is just a quality soap, regardless of tallow. Making a great shaving soap is an art and the ingredients list, although very important, is only a part of the whole subject. Many other factors in fact are involved, which include proportion of the ingredients, temperature, period of seasoning and last but not least that "magic" touch given by the Master Soap Maker who creates his own, unique shave soap. That said I think that a quality tallow soap will always be a timeless classic. But a quality vegetable soap can compete with it at the same high level and deliver the same outstanding performance.

Soap making is an honest combination of chemistry and art. I was into making soaps a few years back for a while. I was barely able to make a usable bar of soap, but I did learn enough to see that the combination of fats and base you use give the soap its properties. There is so much to learn, wow, so many commercially available fats and organic acids.... These artisans making such good soaps are truly gifted.

njpaddy said:

I tend to rate my 5 Harris soaps as Tier 1, RazoRock CC Bay Rum & Cade as Tier II and my 4 SRD glycerin soaps as Tier III, but truthfully I don't find much difference between them. I can get just as good a shave with SRD as Harris. My soap choice these days is more based on scent than type.

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Have you tried any of the newer American artisans (B&M, Strop Shoppe, CRSW, Mickey Lee, etc.)? Wondering how DRH stacks up against them.

Bona Fide said:

Have you tried any of the newer American artisans (B&M, Strop Shoppe, CRSW, Mickey Lee, etc.)? Wondering how DRH stacks up against them.

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Having tried DRH and all of those you mentioned, I'd put DRH a step behind. Nothing wrong with it, but those others are world class.

I don't really care what it's made from. I go by performance. Whatever Haslinger Scafmilch is made of gets my vote.