So what else do I need?

karhu · May 19, 2015

So I figure that I'll start trying to hone up my own razors, but I wondering what else I really need. And by really need, I mean at a minimum. I'm not looking to go crazy at the moment.

I currently have (from my knife sharpening):
240 grit diamond plate for lapping
1K Shapton Pro
5K Shapton Pro
8K Imanishi
8"x3" Black Latigo Bench Strop

I've read that the 4K/8K Norton is a common stone (and I've got that covered by the 5K,8K). I've got the strop.

Do I need something higher grit for finishing or can I get a shave ready razor out of what I've got?

Avenolpey · May 19, 2015

You have it covered for setting the bevel and 5k will do some of the bridging. I don't know the Imanishi. I would add a Coticule which can finish the bridging and give you a nice finish. Shaving off 8k is probably possible but not pleasant. The Coticule could be a game changer for you.

SciTX · May 19, 2015

as someone who is just starting to hone....I can tell you that you will need.....patience!

karhu · May 19, 2015

SciTX said:
...I can tell you that you will need.....patience!

Patience is something I've got lots of.

karhu · May 19, 2015

Avenolpey said:
The Coticule could be a game changer for you.

I'm wondering how a Coticule would compare to using a Chromium Oxide balsa strop.

Avenolpey · May 19, 2015

karhu said:
I'm wondering how a Coticule would compare to using a Chromium Oxide balsa strop.

They have little in common. If you take a toothy 8k edge and strop it on CrOx you end up with a very keen toothy edge. The Coticule can take a 1k edge all the way to smooth shaving. Few stones can do that as easily,

mikael · May 19, 2015

Have you tried using the setup you have? The key is to set the bevel perfectly. I don't know your 8k. But if you set the bevel perfectly refine it on the 5k and finish with light strokes on your 8k then you might have a working set up.

If you are not satisfied with the edges you get from your set up then all you really need is a finisher. lots of choices there. And almost all of them work.

rlmnshvstr8 · May 19, 2015

From what I have quickly read on the imanishi 8k, you should be more than fine since the particle size is 1.2 microns where the 8k norton is 3 micron. So don't go with the norton unless you want to go back a step.

Now if you want a finisher, at that level of fineness you could look into a suehiro Gokumyo 20k. A very hard stone at 0.5 micron particle size and not as aggressive as the shapton 30k though they are relatively the same micron particle size but it is still very aggressive and known to be able to remove 4k stria pretty easily. That is if you want to stay with synthetics.

If you want to go natural you could go jnat. I have never tried a coticule but I hear good reviews. But as for jnat they can produce a smooth edge, keen edge or both. They are very versatile and accommodating but they are definitely a rabbit hole leading to wonderland where you may not find you way out. LOL. But If you want to find out more on jnats look up alx (thejapanstone.com also here on B&B) or steve56 (here on B&B) or takeshi (aframestokyo.com). They have forgotten more than most can learn and are really helpful if you wish to shoot them an email or PM.

Have fun.
Neil

karhu · May 19, 2015

Avenolpey said:
They have little in common. If you take a toothy 8k edge and strop it on CrOx you end up with a very keen toothy edge. The Coticule can take a 1k edge all the way to smooth shaving. Few stones can do that as easily,

CrOx is still 0.5 micron, which still has some cutting power.

And I'm not disagreeing that the Coticule has that kind of ability. However at this moment I've got other stones, so I think I only need something more of a finisher before the strop. But I was curious if another stone was really required. And I won't disagree that another stone might make things "better", but I want to test the waters before I layout a sum on another stone.

karhu · May 19, 2015

mikael said:
Have you tried using the setup you have? The key is to set the bevel perfectly. I don't know your 8k. But if you set the bevel perfectly refine it on the 5k and finish with light strokes on your 8k then you might have a working set up.

If you are not satisfied with the edges you get from your set up then all you really need is a finisher. lots of choices there. And almost all of them work.

This is what I was curious about - how close can you get with an 8K?

It may not be the uber-fine edge someone else can attain with more stones, but it's a place for me to start as I see how the stones I have do for me.

karhu · May 19, 2015

rlmnshvstr8 said:
From what I have quickly read on the imanishi 8k, you should be more than fine since the particle size is 1.2 microns where the 8k norton is 3 micron. So don't go with the norton unless you want to go back a step.

Now if you want a finisher, at that level of fineness you could look into a suehiro Gokumyo 20k. A very hard stone at 0.5 micron particle size and not as aggressive as the shapton 30k though they are relatively the same micron particle size but it is still very aggressive and known to be able to remove 4k stria pretty easily. That is if you want to stay with synthetics.

If you want to go natural you could go jnat. I have never tried a coticule but I hear good reviews. But as for jnat they can produce a smooth edge, keen edge or both. They are very versatile and accommodating but they are definitely a rabbit hole leading to wonderland where you may not find you way out. LOL. But If you want to find out more on jnats look up alx (thejapanstone.com also here on B&B) or steve56 (here on B&B) or takeshi (aframestokyo.com). They have forgotten more than most can learn and are really helpful if you wish to shoot them an email or PM.

Have fun.
Neil

Hmm... if the Imanishi is 1.2u, then 0.5u CrOx afterwards might be a good first choice as "cheap" finisher. Whipped Dog sells balsa loaded with CrOx (0.3u) for $10 and there is other choices.

I've looked at the options of Coticule, J-nat, Arkie as finishers and that is huge rabbit hole. I need to start first and see how it's goes

Avenolpey · May 19, 2015

karhu said:
CrOx is still 0.5 micron, which still has some cutting power.

And I'm not disagreeing that the Coticule has that kind of ability. However at this moment I've got other stones, so I think I only need something more of a finisher before the strop. But I was curious if another stone was really required. And I won't disagree that another stone might make things "better", but I want to test the waters before I layout a sum on another stone.

You have a huge jump to make from 1-5k. 5-8k is great if you did the work at 5k. But 8-CrOx won't ever touch my face again. I think that is a formula for an unpleasant shave. The Coticule would take care of the deficiency from 1-5 and you would not even need the 8k. Or, you could go all the way to 8k and then refine with the Coticule. You can try what you have, but you won't be the first. It has been tried by many and no one raves about the result. Coticule's can be very affordable if you go small.

Another thought is to fill the gaps 1-5 with film and then use a couple films from 8k to finish. That is a cheap way to go and should work fine.

Gamma · May 19, 2015

What else do you need?

Hmm.

Practice. :001_cool:

karhu · May 19, 2015

Gamma said:
What else do you need?

Hmm.

Practice.

Started that today. Spent some time with the 1K and a very dull razor. Still a ways to go though before I step to the 5K with this one.

Gamma · May 19, 2015

Hone hone hone, hone a lot and then hone some more.
Hone till it hurts and keep on honin'.
When you hate honing keep honing, and when you love honing keep honing. Do not stop honing.
Hone up a storm, hone up a blizzard, hone till the seasons change - but whatever you do - just keep on honing .
Hone, hone, hone - hone it good.

David · May 20, 2015

You left out the best part.....

appa69 · May 20, 2015

Hone and try it for yourself. Only you can decide what's comfortable for you. 8k to crox may work for you just fine.

denvernoob · May 20, 2015

If you want a good synthetic finisher, and probably stay on the same learning curve you have with your other stones, I recommend a Naniwa 12k. I use it and it produces wonderful edges from the 8k. It is pretty fast and gives good feedback as far as progress goes.

Also, in addition to patience, especially on your 5k/8k/finisher....
a light touch once the bevel is set will pay you high dividends. Light weight of the blade only light...just kiss the edge and polish that bad boy.

rlmnshvstr8 · May 20, 2015

denvernoob said:
If you want a good synthetic finisher, and probably stay on the same learning curve you have with your other stones, I recommend a Naniwa 12k. I use it and it produces wonderful edges from the 8k. It is pretty fast and gives good feedback as far as progress goes.

Now if my resource is correct that I previously used in my previous post the Naniwa may not be beneficial. With both the imanishi 8k and the naniwa 12k having very similar particle sizes. From what I quickly looked at the imanishi 8k is at 1.2u while the naniwa 12k is either at 1.5u or 1.2u. So it will either be the same or a step back. So unless I'm incorrect, which I could be and will be glad to be proven wrong, him getting a naniwa will not help him providing a better enough finish if not going back a step to justify the purchase in his case.

Gamma · May 20, 2015

I think the 1k SS is either 1.0µm or 0.98µm.

But whatever - particle size, esp between different brands - is only part of the story.

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So what else do I need?

karhu

Avenolpey

SciTX

karhu

karhu

Avenolpey

mikael

rlmnshvstr8

karhu

karhu

karhu

Avenolpey

Gamma

karhu

Gamma

David

B&B’s Champion Corn Shucker

appa69

denvernoob

rlmnshvstr8

Gamma

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