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Do Teflon/PTFE-coating glide better than platinum coating ?

That is some awesome information! Thanks for enlightening us.
Do you have an explanation for why some vintage blades last so long? The coating can't possibly last for 100 shaves, can it?

I asked the same question some months ago, and found some interesting responses on this forum.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/445311-Why-do-some-DE-blades-last-so-long

Boge's response made the most sense to me. That doesn't detract from the excellent information offered by mblakele.
 
Metallurgical science has advanced much since the 1970s and the same applies to razor blade manufacturing. Production lines now include technology that previously did not even exist and today's polymers are far superior to DuPont's original polytetrafluoroethylene. The ribbon stock itself is a higher grade of steel, made to more exacting specifications that were never before possible.

Double edged blades have become commoditized, due to overall global economy improvement and also from the highly successful marketing of proprietary cartridge blade systems. Those of you that wax poetic over blades made in the late 20th century are mistaken if you think that was the "golden age" pinnacle. You're living in the "golden age" at this moment, so enjoy the wide variety and availability of today's blades, because a demand contraction and subsequent manufacturing consolidation/discontinuation is underway, even as I write this.
 
You're living in the "golden age" at this moment, so enjoy the wide variety and availability of today's blades, because a demand contraction and subsequent manufacturing consolidation/discontinuation is underway, even as I write this.

I am pretty new here on B&B, but my impression was that there is a renewed interest in DE shaving. What is the reason behind you stating discontinuation of razor blade manufacturing is currently underway?
 
I am pretty new here on B&B, but my impression was that there is a renewed interest in DE shaving. What is the reason behind you stating discontinuation of razor blade manufacturing is currently underway?

The explosion of interest in DE shaving is still only a minuscule percentage of the global market in DE blades, most of which are sold to men in Russia, China, India, Turkey, Africa, etc. As more and more of those consumers switch to cartridges of one sort or another, the demand for DE blades goes down.
However, I'm not that worried. There's still a many hundreds of millions of men using DE razors. By the time shaveageddon happens, I'll be long dead and my heirs will be wondering what to do with all of my leftover razor blades ...

@Mischka: modern blades are very good, but results don't lie. The best vintage blades shave just as well as the best modern blades and they last many times longer (notice that I did not claim vintage blades shave better than modern blades).
 
I am pretty new here on B&B, but my impression was that there is a renewed interest in DE shaving. What is the reason behind you stating discontinuation of razor blade manufacturing is currently underway?

I am not Mischka, but I would not be surprised if demand for DE blades is contracting. As incomes rise in India and Asia, consumers seem to be moving toward cartridge systems. The Gillette Guard makes that change easier still, because it is priced to compete directly with DE razors.

That is some awesome information! Thanks for enlightening us.
Do you have an explanation for why some vintage blades last so long? The coating can't possibly last for 100 shaves, can it?

On that point I plead YMMV. I would not expect PTFE blade coatings to last 100 shaves either. A good hardness coating might last that long, though, which would also protect the edge from corrosion. In that case it may be a question of comfort more than ability to cut. No doubt the usual factor apply too: beard type, skin type, and all the other ways that YMMV. I tend to decide a blade is over the hill after 5-14 shaves. But some of our centondetians may not care so much about comfort, and will keep using the blade as long as it still cuts their hair. Possibly I could test that idea by sending out samples of those uncoated Silver Star Duridium blades, or by finding an easy way to remove the PTFE coating from a new blade without affecting its edge.

Along those lines you might also be interested in US5985459, a late-1990s Gillette patent that discusses the "second shave is the best" phenomenon. The authors found that this was due to excess PTFE on the surface. They removed that using some pretty nasty solvents. This made the first shave more comfortable, and their tests of cutting force showed little difference in blade life. Apparently there was still a functional thin film of PTFE on the blade, even though it was invisible at 900x magnification. Silicone oil beaded up on the coated blade, but spread out on an uncoated blade.

Figure 5 from that patent shows us another way to look at shaving comfort, in terms of cutting force or force to cut. The figure compares blade cutting a test pad of wool felt up to 500 times. With a PTFE coating the first dozen or so cuts take up to 1.8-lb of force, then the blade settles down to about 1.1-lb and slowly climbs to about 1.4-lb over the test. That initial variation is why some gents cork their blades or grumble about the first shave. But when do you change out the blade? When it takes 1.4-lb of force to cut? Or 2-lb? Or when? The answer to that question may be very individual, playing a large role in the YMMV of blade life.



@Mischka: modern blades are very good, but results don't lie. The best vintage blades shave just as well as the best modern blades and they last many times longer (notice that I did not claim vintage blades shave better than modern blades).

Still not Mischka, but I would qualify that statement a little. The best vintage blades last longer for some gents.

Myself I have not managed to get more that about 14 shaves from any blade. That includes P74, vintage Wilkinson, Spoilers, Schick Super Platinum... I could go on. I get similar lifetimes from the best modern blades: Feathers, or the best of the Russian Gillettes. Why might different gents have such different experiences from similar blades? That figure above might help. We can see that FTC increases in a fairly smooth, linear way with a flattish slope.

If that holds true for real-world shaving, some centondetian gents might say that every successive shave feels about the same as the previous one. So why stop? Meanwhile other gents may be sensitive to a specific level of FTC, and will change out the blade when they reach that level. Neither answer is right or wrong, except for the individual shaver.

In other words, YMMV.
 
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It is a confusing subject. According to the King Gillette biography, when platinum coating was first introduced it left all the un-coated blades in the dust.

Also, how accurate are these descriptions?
Here's a blade favored by many (I find them about average) that are described as Platinum Class, as opposed to the wrought iron class perhaps? (apologies to all Lord fans)
I have a Platinum Class VISA credit card -- windshield scraper, at best.
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I agree with an earlier post about just trying every blade you can -- find a keeper (or two) -- and hope that they don't discontinue it or worse; just change it without a word to anyone into a shadow of it's former self.

~ Caveat Emptor ~
:euro:
 
I am not Mischka, but I would not be surprised if demand for DE blades is contracting. As incomes rise in India and Asia, consumers seem to be moving toward cartridge systems. The Gillette Guard makes that change easier still, because it is priced to compete directly with DE razors.



On that point I plead YMMV. I would not expect PTFE blade coatings to last 100 shaves either. A good hardness coating might last that long, though, which would also protect the edge from corrosion. In that case it may be a question of comfort more than ability to cut. No doubt the usual factor apply too: beard type, skin type, and all the other ways that YMMV. I tend to decide a blade is over the hill after 5-14 shaves. But some of our centondetians may not care so much about comfort, and will keep using the blade as long as it still cuts their hair. Possibly I could test that idea by sending out samples of those uncoated Silver Star Duridium blades, or by finding an easy way to remove the PTFE coating from a new blade without affecting its edge.

Along those lines you might also be interested in US5985459, a late-1990s Gillette patent that discusses the "second shave is the best" phenomenon. The authors found that this was due to excess PTFE on the surface. They removed that using some pretty nasty solvents. This made the first shave more comfortable, and their tests of cutting force showed little difference in blade life. Apparently there was still a functional thin film of PTFE on the blade, even though it was invisible at 900x magnification. Silicone oil beaded up on the coated blade, but spread out on an uncoated blade.

Figure 5 from that patent shows us another way to look at shaving comfort, in terms of cutting force or force to cut. The figure compares blade cutting a test pad of wool felt up to 500 times. With a PTFE coating the first dozen or so cuts take up to 1.8-lb of force, then the blade settles down to about 1.1-lb and slowly climbs to about 1.4-lb over the test. That initial variation is why some gents cork their blades or grumble about the first shave. But when do you change out the blade? When it takes 1.4-lb of force to cut? Or 2-lb? Or when? The answer to that question may be very individual, playing a large role in the YMMV of blade life.





Still not Mischka, but I would qualify that statement a little. The best vintage blades last longer for some gents.

Myself I have not managed to get more that about 14 shaves from any blade. That includes P74, vintage Wilkinson, Spoilers, Schick Super Platinum... I could go on. I get similar lifetimes from the best modern blades: Feathers, or the best of the Russian Gillettes. Why might different gents have such different experiences from similar blades? That figure above might help. We can see that FTC increases in a fairly smooth, linear way with a flattish slope.

If that holds true for real-world shaving, some centondetian gents might say that every successive shave feels about the same as the previous one. So why stop? Meanwhile other gents may be sensitive to a specific level of FTC, and will change out the blade when they reach that level. Neither answer is right or wrong, except for the individual shaver.

In other words, YMMV.

Impressive. :thumbup1: Thanks for posting that graph!

My longevity record is 52 shaves on an English Wilkinson. During that odyssey, I would occasionally do side-by-side shaves with a nearly-fresh Wilkie. Until the very end, the two blades behaved identically.
 
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Holy cow that graph and post is amazing! IT's the first time my scientific mind has been willing to accept the idea that maybe the first shave isn't the best.

Thanks!
 
I think what matters in the end, is that we just accept the Russia provides us with the best blades, and we'll be fine if we stick within there. :tongue_sm
 
...Those of you that wax poetic over blades made in the late 20th century are mistaken if you think that was the "golden age" pinnacle. You're living in the "golden age" at this moment, so enjoy the wide variety and availability of today's blades, because a demand contraction and subsequent manufacturing consolidation/discontinuation is underway, even as I write this.

I agree.

...I would qualify that statement a little. The best vintage blades last longer for some gents.

Myself I have not managed to get more that about 14 shaves from any blade. That includes P74, vintage Wilkinson, Spoilers, Schick Super Platinum...

I agree on this as well. I get about 7 to 8 shaves on these "Golden Age" NOS blades. There were some great blades made then, however I think many people suffer from test bias as well. Sort of a "the farther the reach, the sweeter the peach". :001_smile


 
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