Mission Accomplished: 5 Years Later, the New Vietnam

On 1 May 2003, President George Bush strode onto the deck of the aircraft carrier, USS Abraham Lincoln. Overhead was a banner saying "Mission Accomplished."

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Five years later, I still don't see any strong, tangible accomplishments that warranted our entry into Iraq. The minor accomplishments have not justified the great loss of life and the amazing financial expeditures. Presidnt Bush's triumphant declaration notwithstanding, Iraq has become my generation's Vietnam. The protests haven't been as explosive but the bewildering reasoning of our politicians is no different. I recognize the fact that there are many differences. My comparison is that like the Vietnam War, the Iraq War is by and large admonished but there seems to be no end in sight.

As I look at the candidates for President, here are their statements:

1. Obama stated he could get all combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. I don't know how he plans to do that with insurrection fighting still a problem.
2. McCain stated that he'd one day like Iraq to no longer need US troops. What is the litmus test for not needing troops? They have a new government and have officials that were freely elected. He warns that we might have a military presence there for 100 years. I know the US still has troops in Germany, Cuba, and South Korea, among other places. But considering how strongly Americans disapprove this war, I don't think that's the kind of outlook people want to hear.
3. Clinton said she'd start to withdraw troops within 60 days of being elected. Which troops? How many? When would the last group leave?
   

As a side note: What ever happened to Afghanistan?

I'm afraid that there is no way to fully accomplish our stated goals in Iraq, no matter how long we stay. Incompetence, poor planning, and putting politics in front of actual intelligence over the past 5+ years has pretty much ensured that. I just hope that we will be able to find a way to pull our troops out without making things too much worse for the iraqis and without causing more deaths to our own men in uniform.

One thing I am certain about: this disaster has made America less safe. The past 5+ years have been a sad chapter in American foreign policy history, and one for which we will be paying both figuratively and literally for generations to come. The costs of this war, both financial and otherwise, are being left to my generation and generations to come in the ultimate example of selfishness and irresponsibility.

Note: I do not blame the brave men and women actually serving in Iraq for this. They have (with a few sad exceptions) done an amazing job attempting help the iraqi people and to win an unwinnable war. Their successes and sacrifices are worthy of admiration and praise. This failure is not on their shoulders, but on the shoulders of the politicians, planners, and their allies in the media who foisted this mixture of lies, incompetence, and misplaced idealism onto our nation.

TstebinsB said:

As a side note: What ever happened to Afghanistan?

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It's still booming


Cheers


Jeremy

Like Viet Nam we will be stuck in both places for a long time. I do not care what any of the three of them say, there is no way we are pulling out in the next three or four years. My heart hurts for those who have to fight these wars.

There is no instance of a country having benefitted from prolonged warfare.

Unfortunately you are stuck in Afghanistan and Iraq for a long time. In vietnam and Iraq those that profit from war are the one's that pushed for them, and got them, sadly its all about profit, One of your famous generals warned you about the power of military Corporations, they will try to extend these wars indefinitely. Then you have the private armies like "blackwater" which cost a arm and a leg to run, they don't want the war to end either 'cause they're making too much money from that gravy train called the military machine, consider that the total US military budget EXCLUDING the cost of both current wars is approx 400 billion dollars PER YEAR, is that a money sucking machine or what.....those that profit from war couldn't care less about the human cost, humans are expendable, do you see any of the super wealthy military corporations giving back some of the profits in the form of veteran rehabilitation, I dont think so.

This whole thing stinks of Greed by powerful people hiding behind the flag and the ideology of patriotism.

Americas military machine is a powerful and great fighting machine, of that there is no doubt, but the corporate suits that run it are as corrupt as they come.

There is a military and political lesson that many powers in the world never seems to be able to learn. Before you commit to a military engagement, the goals and objectives must be precisely defined. In addition, it is critical that before any action begins, you must have a predefined, detailed withdrawal strategy. Besides the obvious US mistakes, a few other examples are the Russians in Afganistan and the French and Russians made the mistake in Vietnam before the US fumbled the ball. There are many other examples but my dinner is ready...

wetbadger said:

Unfortunately you are stuck in Afghanistan and Iraq for a long time. In vietnam and Iraq those that profit from war are the one's that pushed for them, and got them, sadly its all about profit, One of your famous generals warned you about the power of military Corporations, they will try to extend these wars indefinitely. Then you have the private armies like "blackwater" which cost a arm and a leg to run, they don't want the war to end either 'cause they're making too much money from that gravy train called the military machine, consider that the total US military budget EXCLUDING the cost of both current wars is approx 400 billion dollars PER YEAR, is that a money sucking machine or what.....those that profit from war couldn't care less about the human cost, humans are expendable, do you see any of the super wealthy military corporations giving back some of the profits in the form of veteran rehabilitation, I dont think so.

This whole thing stinks of Greed by powerful people hiding behind the flag and the ideology of patriotism.

Americas military machine is a powerful and great fighting machine, of that there is no doubt, but the corporate suits that run it are as corrupt as they come.

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I would like to add to the above statements, these Corporations also own and control the media outlets.

netsurfr said:

Before you commit to a military engagement, the goals and objectives must be precisely defined.

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They pretty much were-- to steal as much of the people's money as possible as fast as possible, and to hand it to military contractors.

ScottS said:

They pretty much were-- to steal as much of the people's money as possible as fast as possible, and to hand it to military contractors.

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For some reason, the phrase that comes to mind is 'Mission Accomplished'

c2rex said:

I would like to add to the above statements, these Corporations also own and control the media outlets.

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Yes, yes, yes its the exact same corporations!!! And their executives fly around in black helicopters!!! And they are mean and really, really evil and want to take over the world!!! And its all a great big government conspiracy run by Karl Rove and Dick Cheney.



The free market, and the free market alone (except where the government tries to screw things up) effectively controls corporations, media outlets and anything else that isn't a charity, and many that are. They're not in it to take over the world, they're in it to make a buck. And that's a good thing. That makes a lot more sense to me than any ridiculous military-industrial complex conspiracy theories.

groan

RichmondR said:

They're not in it to take over the world, they're in it to make a buck. And that's a good thing.

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I agree they dont want to take over the world, their only intention is to fleece the american taxpayer of every cent they possibly can, how patriotic is that ?, they OVERCHARGE and have been caught with their fingers in the till several times, but I don't care as it isn't my tax dollars that they are stealing.

RichmondR said:

That makes a lot more sense to me than any ridiculous military-industrial complex conspiracy theories.

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Did you ever stop to think why after taking Bagdad the army stood around picking its nose ?, how come no plan for post victory, The army ALWAYS follows orders, my guess is that they weren't instructed to secure the place with the precise intention of letting it descend into chaos, now...I wonder who gave that order and what his motives were ?, the entire post war scenario was engineered by those that control the army, and that was Rummy and his corporate suits.....

Oh, and free markets CAN and are manipulated, all the time......you just need enough money and the monoply over something to do it. just because you cant do it doesn't mean others cant .

c2rex said:

I would like to add to the above statements, these Corporations also own and control the media outlets.

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I would like to add a few more to that. They define what is LEGAL and Illegal. They practice it ruthlessly both at a federal level and provincial/state level.

Smaller corporations control cities, linked to bigger corporations that control the smaller corporations or influence them so they have control over State/Provincial governments. That in turn is controlled by the big Cheese (you name the flavor, we got em all)

Educated Americans (U.S.A.) mostly make more noise about B.S. they don't want, but on our side of the continent, we just take it because it is "Legal". Even our educated ones.

Imagine, if 400 Billion $ were spent right here creating jobs, bettering the medical/health care system, feeding America's poor, increasing literacy rate, etc.

The point is, there will be no change in the world until there is a change in humanity at its core.

RichmondR:

Yes, to make a buck. But it gets deeper than that. "Conspiracy theories" are terms used to joke around so people can just think they are myths and a majority of them ARE myths due to the fact that the words Conspiracy theory are used to knock any thoughts and ridicule the notion that our government maybe lying or hiding things from us, but if you really put two and two together, its no longer a theory, nor conspiracy. As the OP says, Mission Accomplished... Speaking of conspiracy theories, WHEN did that happen? Were you thinking that it was a conspiracy theory when some people thought "There's no way this war is over" ?

Now our troops are in Afghanistan burning up poppy fields, the only way for those farmers to survive. But the highest demand for drugs is in Europe and North America. They aren't burning the fields to stop drugs. They are controlling who gets the grow operation. They are establishing control over the drug trade, while still keeping it illegal. By the way, the government allows certain areas to grow poppies incase you didn't know. This product is shipped off to Iran, India, Pakistan, Sri-Lanka, where it is Processed. The Sri-Lankans export it to fund Tamil Tigers fighting their local government. Fighting means what? WEAPON SALES. See? I told you it gets deeper...Remember to connect the dots first.

Our government makes sure to keep such drugs illegal for a reason, and you would think its because they are dangerous?! Give me a break. What's more dangerous is sending an 18 year old kid whose never had a date with a beer to Afghanistan to fight a war he doesn't understand. Drugs make MONEY. Illegal activity makes money. If the government really wanted to crack down on all crime, they could. But they won't because it solves problems, and they want to create problems, to solve, so they can be elected the next time around, and repeat the cycle again. You'd be surprised at what people say when you go and have a few bouts of some Irish pints with them. I'm talking professionals, and government officials. Once you've opened them up and their thoughts, you'll start think differently about some Conspiracy theories. A minority of them really aren't.

And one more thing, There is no free market, just as there is no free lunch. And if it is free, someone is manipulating their way to try to get it, globally, i.e. China vs India for the European/North American market. AND Middle East vs South/Central America for Oil.

RichmondR said:

They're not in it to take over the world, they're in it to make a buck.

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Ain't that true!

RichmondR said:

And that's a good thing.

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Well, it all depends what you choose to call 'good'. I suppose you're not too familiar with the contracts and business practices of these private security companies. Of course, a contract is a contract and both sides have better read it before signing. At the same time the jurisdiction and accountability problem in enforcing said contracts etc. is an interesting one.
Free market will solve it indeed. Given enough time to work out the kinks.

Of course, private security companies win their contracts from the military because they are better than the government. Meaning more efficient and effective than the armed forces of the US government. So, all these 'men and women in uniform, protecting this great country and our freedom' are probably not the best there is if private security companies can do the same job with 1/10th of the manpower.

And in a free market system, when the Iraqis can't pay for US businesses to provide whatever services they provide, they just won't get them. Unless somebody else is either charitable enough or stupid enough to foot the bill.

So yeah, fear not, it'll work out eventually. And when it does everybody will be getting just what they are willing to spend on from what they can afford.

New2DEShaving_Montreal said:

The point is, there will be no change in the world until there is a change in humanity at its core.

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And that is the crux of the entire matter, those in power, who I refer to as the "Aristocrats" will never do whats right for humanity, they will always pursue POWER, they want power, they thrive on power and will never relinquish it, to maintain power they need to maintian the status quo, keep people in the dark and feed them ****, they aren't interested in providing "real" education to the masses, no...., for example, Imagine if they taught finance and investment in school, how to manage and invest your own money sensibly and professionally, this is an important life skill, but do they do that?, no, why ?, because that would put all of those bloodsucking bankers, investment brokers, financial advisors, out of business, now who controls whom?, surely if the government did whats right we would be far better educated at managing our finances than we are today, you see the system isn't interested in having financially educated citizens, and hence they "OWN YOU". Why do you think that the "Aristocrats" send their kinds to special schools ?, its so that they learn the correct mindset and attain the "proper" life skills, and not learn the **** that they teach at the common schools, you see, the government needs, Police, fireman, streetsweepers, garbage collectors, teachers, mechanics, etc... so the educational system is tailored and designed to brain wash kids for that, they want subservient, obedient, unquestioning, modern slaves that can be whipped into a frenzy to do THEIR bidding when it suits them, like.... go to war when its not required.

wetbadger said:

And that is the crux of the entire matter, those in power, who I refer to as the "Aristocrats" will never do whats right for humanity, they will always pursue POWER, they want power, they thrive on power and will never relinquish it, to maintain power they need to maintian the status quo, keep people in the dark and feed them ****, they aren't interested in providing "real" education to the masses, no...., for example, Imagine if they taught finance and investment in school, how to manage and invest your own money sensibly and professionally, this is an important life skill, but do they do that?, no, why ?, because that would put all of those bloodsucking bankers, investment brokers, financial advisors, out of business, now who controls whom?, surely if the government did whats right we would be far better educated at managing our finances than we are today, you see the system isn't interested in having financially educated citizens, and hence they "OWN YOU". Why do you think that the "Aristocrats" send their kinds to special schools ?, its so that they learn the correct mindset and attain the "proper" life skills, and not learn the **** that they teach at the common schools, you see, the government needs, Police, fireman, streetsweepers, garbage collectors, teachers, mechanics, etc... so the educational system is tailored and designed to brain wash kids for that, they want subservient, obedient, unquestioning, modern slaves that can be whipped into a frenzy to do THEIR bidding when it suits them, like.... go to war when its not required.

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So what's a realistic alternative? I agree with your statements for the most part, but why does life have to be lollipops and cotton candy?

wetbadger said:

Did you ever stop to think why after taking Bagdad the army stood around picking its nose ?, how come no plan for post victory, The army ALWAYS follows orders, my guess is that they weren't instructed to secure the place with the precise intention of letting it descend into chaos, now...I wonder who gave that order and what his motives were ?, the entire post war scenario was engineered by those that control the army, and that was Rummy and his corporate suits.....

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I think that was just Rummy's incompetence. For some of this stuff, we don't need conspiracy theories.

Wait...you mean, after the President personally landed the plane on the carrier, said "Mission Accomplished" and everyone took pictures...you mean this thing went ON?

I need to get out more.

Something doesn't add up!

Aaron S. said:

So what's a realistic alternative? I agree with your statements for the most part, but why does life have to be lollipops and cotton candy?

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Ah but thats it we have been programmed to aspire to, a life of lollipops and candy, compete with the Jonses, aquire material wealth at all costs, why?, those are our basic animal instincts which the suits are well aware of, and they spend millions on market research to get you to spend more on ****e you don't need, its makes the corporations rich, America is Owned and Run by corporations.

What do we need to do?,
1). Change the educational system, we need to program Kids with a different operating system (life philosophy), but in order to do that you need leaders which are of high moral standing.
Our leaders should abide by these three basic rules;
1). Do not be dishonest.
2). Don not Kill your fellow man/woman. (you can include animals, if you wish).
3). Do NOT be greedy.

Too me a group of people is civilised if it,
Doesn't have a Police force
Doesn't have a army
Doesn't have lawyers
Doesn't have priests, churches, or an invisible god.
It abides by the three rules layed out above.

*sigh*
I really had a good shave this afternoon