Gliding on the safety bar or tugging!

Hello all. After 30 years of electric shaving, I decided to journey into the world of safety razors. Picked up the Van Der Hagen for my first, just to enter in the world of DE shaving. I got the kit, premium luxury soap, boar brush, and mug. I also stopped by Sally's and picked up some Personna and Derby Blades.

Now here is my deal. It seems to work ok for growth that is VERY short, like less than say 2 days. But anything over that, it either glides on the bar, or it tugs to the point where I cannot even finish or even begin a small stroke. My lather is good, even mix in a bit of Cremo Cream to add extra slickness. Lathering in a bowl. Hot shower first, hot water on the face right before I begin. I don't get it.

It tends to do very well on the cheeks, although that is the easiest portion to shave. But I am really struggling getting close on the jawline / ridge, top of the neck, and chin. I have very coarse/stiff stubble. I am sure it comes down to finding the angle, and more practice, but I almost feel like this particular razor is just not aggressive enough. I feel like I need to break rule number one, "do not apply pressure and let the weight of the razor do the work," just to get it to even shave. Like I said, seems there are two speeds in the more rigid areas of my face. Tugging, or gliding / nothing.

Any and all advice is more than greatly appreciated as I do not want to go back to the dreaded messy electric shaver. I am really enjoying the experience so far, but need to work out the kinks.

Oh and by the way, I have watched countless vids on YouTube, and read many forums. I have seen a couple guys mow down some long hair with a safety razor no problem, hell geofatman even did his chin damn near bone dry! I must be missing something!

Ryan; The razor you have is pretty mild (also safe). Consider more than one pass if you're not doing that; Sometimes called "beard reduction". I haven't used either of the blades you mentioned. I'm just guessing here but I suspect your angle. You want a shallow angle (blade to face) and should hear the blade cutting; sounding like buttered toast or pulling Velcro apart. Your prep is very good.

Welcome!

Well, I find it difficult to get that "velcro" type sound on anything over a day old stubble. I start with with the grain, than across, than against / touch-up. I am really thinking it is just the fact that the razor is just to mild, very little blade exposure. It seems I have to go at a much steeper angle for it to even begin cutting, but just a bit to steep and it tugs fiercely on anything that is past a day or two. Guess I better get in the routine of shaving daily....

And thanks Tabaconista!

If the razor is at the right angle you're going to hear the blade as it cuts the whiskers - sort of a popping sound as they cut. If you hear nothing then your angle is wrong. Two days of beard shouldn't be too much for even the mildest of razors.

Remember as you negotiate angles and curves on your face/jaw you need to move the razor to keep the right angle going. Two or three passes should yield a CCS at least.

We'll get this right, have no fear! Keep working at it.

PS: Have you examined the razor to be sure the blade is straight and evenly exposed on both sides? Occasionally a razor will be defective or damaged. The blade exposure will be uneven, etc. Just for the sake of thoroughness take a look and be sure it's even on both sides and the blade gap from the edge to the bar is even on both sides.

I have a friend who's had a razor for quite a few months. He kept having trouble with cuts despite trying various things. Come to realize the blade wasn't seating properly! So let's verify this also.

First off your prep sounds good. Just curious have you mapped your growth pattern? For me I do a WTG first, then a XTG pass. A complete ATG pass leaves little bumps on my neck and jaw area, and sometimes ingrown hairs.

I struggled my first several shaves, trying to chase a BBS and made hamburger of my jawline. Once I mapped my growth pattern now I get DFS with two passes and can achieve an almost BBS with some buffing in my trouble spots.

One other thing you might try is a blade sampler, I have used both of the blades you have, and IMHO they are mild blades.

As with anything here YMMV, so keep at it things will start to come together for you and good luck with future shaves.

Hello and welcome to B&B. Plenty of great tips above.

His description reminds me of over loading a cartridge razor with too many days growth. And, I vaguely remember that sensation with single edge, trac two, and atra systems before current designs. Not having experience with the razor, I'll offer a very mild design? Personas have been normally good to me, except when my adjustable is too closed.
Sorry I have no answer. In other times, I'd have used a beard trimmer 1st to shorten the weeds, then go for the finishing with my daily razor. Today it's use my artist club and then finish... If I have any sense I'm going to experience tugging, which these days is rare.

Welcome to B&B. It sounds to me like your angle is off and that's why the razor is tugging. For help with the right angle here is a good post that may help you.

Welcome to B&B

Shorten up your strokes.....

When shaving try to use short rapid motions, not long slow ones. You want to cut your beard not mow it down. Apply only enough pressure on the razor to keep it in contact with your face. Let the weight of the razor and the sharpness of the blade do the cutting.

Try to lock your wrist and elbow and move the entire arm that is holding the razor from the shoulder. This will help you keep a consistent blade angle as the entire razor will move in one plain since you are not adding several additional movements with your wrist and elbow.

Do not "flick your wrist" as the blade angle will swing wildly through your "flick".

This may seem awkward at first but after 6 months to a year of concentrating on this technique it will become natural and not require any thinking.

Drop into the Shave Wiki and read over some of the shaving articles. http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/ You will find a LOT of useful info in there.

If you have not already done so, stop into the Hall of Fame and tell everyone a little about yourself

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/forumdisplay.php/30-Hall-of-Fame

I'd say your describing a Derby blade. I get the feeling that's why they're not so popular although I like them. They work best for me as a daily blade and anything heavier requires a bit more effort from the user.

IME. IMO, YMMV etc.

Dave-the-rave said:

I'd say your describing a Derby blade.

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+1 I have a similar beard type, and this was my exact experience with Derby's on two days growth!

Thanks Jim and Mick for grounding the discussion. I just looked back at my reply and realized I'd identified with the OP without pointing to real tools to change the experience. You guys rock.

Good hunting Ryan.

Damn, so much advice. This is awesome, and thank you all so very much! It is a real blessing for you all to come at me with all the input as none of my friends or family use anything but electric / cartridge razors. Only my grandpa who passed several years ago was a safety razor, bowl lather guy, but I was to young to need advice when I would watch him. I want to rival the man, he was amazing!

Anyway, just to clear a few things up. I am letting my face heal today, yesterdays shave attempt left my chin and jawline a wreck! That was using a Personna Blue blade. My first shave was with the Van Der Hagen blade, which was much more mild than the Personna, and I managed to not cut myself with the VDH blade. VDH blade states made in germany, ice tempered stainless. Honestly, I had a better experience with it than the Personna, but I am not about to pay for the VDH blades, way to expensive so not even an option lol. Personna cut me up bad, so next I will be trying the Derby Extra. So many mixed reviews about the Derby blades makes me nervous, but I will give them a shot none the less.

I think maybe I will try to find some decent pre shave oil, maybe that would help things and soften my whiskers a bit more. I also think my lather was perhaps a bit to dry / sticky. Still trying to master a good lather to be honest. I am only a week into this, so I have a long road ahead. I would also like to mention that the first time I put a blade in the razor, I noticed right away it was not equally exposed on both sides. I take extra precaution to make sure it is centered, I have terrible ocd so things like that do not get past me!

The advice to make short strokes I think is gonna help me. I will continue working on angles around the contours. My angle on the cheek is perfect, but once I hit corners and curves it get tricky. Like the chin to neck / jawline is a pain in the *** right now! I will concentrate on locking the wrist, and working from the shoulder. I will also be trying to map out my growth pattern better.

Will be checking out the links provided. Seriously, thank you all for the support! I was amazed to see how many responded. Great community here!

Oh, I just thought of something I meant to ask. Does it matter which way you put the blade in as far as one side up or down? Is it gonna be a bad time if say I have it facing one way, than I take it out to clean it after a shave, than put it back in with the opposite side facing up?

Ryan Lee said:

Oh, I just thought of something I meant to ask. Does it matter which way you put the blade in as far as one side up or down? Is it gonna be a bad time if say I have it facing one way, than I take it out to clean it after a shave, than put it back in with the opposite side facing up?

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You can put it in any way you like. It doesn't matter which side is up.

mswofford said:

Ryan; The razor you have is pretty mild (also safe). Consider more than one pass if you're not doing that; Sometimes called "beard reduction". I haven't used either of the blades you mentioned. I'm just guessing here but I suspect your angle. You want a shallow angle (blade to face) and should hear the blade cutting; sounding like buttered toast or pulling Velcro apart. Your prep is very good.

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Very good advice Mike. .

Ryan Lee said:

Oh, I just thought of something I meant to ask. Does it matter which way you put the blade in as far as one side up or down? Is it gonna be a bad time if say I have it facing one way, than I take it out to clean it after a shave, than put it back in with the opposite side facing up?

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No it doesn't matter.

I used to have an issue with tugging as well. Turns out that my angle was wrong. I needed to go a little more shallow (lift handle more parallel to ground).

Tension the skin with fingers BEHIND the razor for extra cutting power.