Could it be this simple?

When you shave with a cartridge, you think of the cartridge as doing the work. When you shave with an open blade, you think of yourself as doing the work. The people who originally shaved with DE razors had the benefit of the latter perspective.

The cartridge foils are like a bathroom bureaucracy, where no one is responsible for anything. It took me two years to realize that the curvature of the top cap does the same thing as fingers holding the skin back as you push the edge through hair. What happened to us? Any sociologists or Kafka scholars in the membership?

TL;DR #37 #40

No idea, but I had to be more careful with a Trac II cartridge razor than with the mild DE razors I've come to prefer.

The head profile of the Schick Krona is so good (for me) that the razor literally does all of the work!

I get reminded of that each time I switch to another razor ... and usually I switch back to my Kronas pretty soon again.

In my view, the major selling point of carts is that the blades are always at the optimal angle when the box is pressed to the skin, so it requires less overall skill to wield. As we all know, any device that makes life's routine tasks less thought intensive (if even at higher cost) is going to generally sell well, as we see today.

I'll be the first to admit that of the two designs (DE vs. cart), the cart is the razor that is most likely to deliver a satisfactory DFS with little to no concentration, one eye open and a cup of coffee in the other hand. Not everyone feels this way of course, but annual sales numbers, even at the inflated mark ups seen with some cart designs, tell the tale.

With that said I prefer the DE hands down.

Highspeedlane said:

In my view, the major selling point of carts is that the blades are always at the optimal angle when the box is pressed to the skin, so it requires less overall skill to wield. As we all know, any device that makes life's routine tasks less thought intensive (if even at higher cost) is going to generally sell well, as we see today.

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That is exactly why I love the Schick Krona (and why others undoubtedly hate it) ... the head profile is flattened in such a way that the razor always adjusts itself to the optimal angle.



(Picture made by Fatboy)

I use a DE, SE and Trac II and of those the only one that requires any serious concentration is the SE. As for shave quality the Trac II is as good as and often better than the DE and both are better than the SE.

I detect a bit of smuggary in the original post, after 50+ years of shaving I'm not smug, I just want and get smooth, comfortable and convenient shaves. It's about removing whiskers, that's all, no grandstanding, high fives or blaring trumpets.

Eeyore said:

That is exactly why I love the Schick Krona (and why others undoubtedly hate it) ... the head profile is flattened in such a way that the razor always adjusts itself to the optimal angle.

(Picture made by Fatboy)

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Very nice. I'm going to have to look for one of those.

Highspeedlane said:

Very nice. I'm going to have to look for one of those.

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Not sure why ... I thought you wanted to be in control yourself, instead of the razor doing the work?

If the Krona angle suits you, the razor works automatically ... if it does not suit you, the razor won't work well for you.

The Krona used to be one of my favorite razors. Worked well and very easy to use. So I've "graduated" to a slant head open comb razor, but went on a trip recently. I didn't have a case for the expensive slant, so I took the Krona. There was no way I could get a close shave with that mild acting razor. I was really happy to get home and back to my slant. I do have to say that the slant took some careful getting used to and if I throw caution to the wind with a new blade in it, I will cut myself, so a very light touch is the secret, but oh, what a nice close shave.

Eeyore said:

Not sure why ... I thought you wanted to be in control yourself, instead of the razor doing the work?

If the Krona angle suits you, the razor works automatically ... if it does not suit you, the razor won't work well for you.

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I collect razors as well. I doubt I would ever shave with it, but you never know.

Eeyore said:

That is exactly why I love the Schick Krona (and why others undoubtedly hate it) ... the head profile is flattened in such a way that the razor always adjusts itself to the optimal angle.

Click to expand...

Okay, it took me a long time to see it. The dark band in the picture is a facet or bevel in the top cap. It actually looks to me like it's meant to stay out of the way, facilitating a low angle. Can you find a steep angle with it?

Highspeedlane said:

In my view, the major selling point of carts is that the blades are always at the optimal angle when the box is pressed to the skin, so it requires less overall skill to wield. As we all know, any device that makes life's routine tasks less thought intensive (if even at higher cost) is going to generally sell well, as we see today.

I'll be the first to admit that of the two designs (DE vs. cart), the cart is the razor that is most likely to deliver a satisfactory DFS with little to no concentration, one eye open and a cup of coffee in the other hand. Not everyone feels this way of course, but annual sales numbers, even at the inflated mark ups seen with some cart designs, tell the tale.

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I can't agree with any of these statements. The blade is always at the optimal angle to dig into skin, making a close shave without pain impossible. It's almost bewildering, sending us into crazy bearded phases and finally, here.

What cartridges are missing is the skin holding-back function of the top cap or (with the open blade) fingers, so drinking coffee is definitely going to get some of us a burn. Seriously, look at your fingertip from the side. It's the same curve of a three-piece's top cap. Was even THAT an advance, or just an additional demand on the lather? SEs and injectors seem to say, "no."

I recently did a retrospective return to cartridges and couldn't get a satisfactory shave. Now I have to go back and do it again, carefully pressing behind every stroke to see if that could save my skin. Somehow I tolerated Sensors 15 years ago or so. Was actually quite enthused about them. All they do is flay me now. I'm pretty sure they flayed me then, too, I was just too dumb and stubborn to know better.

p38thadl said:

Okay, it took me a long time to see it. The dark band in the picture is a facet or bevel in the top cap. It actually looks to me like it's meant to stay out of the way, facilitating a low angle. Can you find a steep angle with it?

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I only use a low angle myself, because that works best with my beard. It automatically adjusts to that angle when I put the Krona to my face. So much that I even keep searching for the proper angle when using a razor with a more rounded top cap (like the Merkur 20c).

There is nothing wrong with cartridges if they work for you.

Except for monopolizing distribution and destroying culture, I agree.

p38thadl said:

What happened to us? Any sociologists or Kafka scholars in the membership?

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Marketing. Businesses wanting to see increased profit margins. Plastic being inexpensive. Lack of proper instruction from shaving role models. Lack of real barbershops.

p38thadl said:

I can't agree with any of these statements. The blade is always at the optimal angle to dig into skin, making a close shave without pain impossible. It's almost bewildering, sending us into crazy bearded phases and finally, here.

What cartridges are missing is the skin holding-back function of the top cap or (with the open blade) fingers, so drinking coffee is definitely going to get some of us a burn. Seriously, look at your fingertip from the side. It's the same curve of a three-piece's top cap. Was even THAT an advance, or just an additional demand on the lather? SEs and injectors seem to say, "no."

I recently did a retrospective return to cartridges and couldn't get a satisfactory shave. Now I have to go back and do it again, carefully pressing behind every stroke to see if that could save my skin. Somehow I tolerated Sensors 15 years ago or so. Was actually quite enthused about them. All they do is flay me now. I'm pretty sure they flayed me then, too, I was just too dumb and stubborn to know better.

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Well sort of; I shave with a fairly steep angle so I doubt the cap does much of anything and I find the angle at which I hold a Trac II almost identical to the way I hold a DE, SE is a whole different regimen. I get significant irritation from any cart that pivots, I believe the pivoting action is what places the blade(s) at too steep an angle, probably lets the head (cart) chatter a bit as well.

While I'm using a Trac II to compensate for a medical situation, I think anyone who uses a DE would be quite pleased with the shave they can get from a Trac II. In fact, I don't consider the Trac II, or any other non-pivoting cart, in the same category as those that pivot.

With the Trac II, I got so much trac-tion that the blades were pulled to skin for the burn. I noticed that the Bic Sensitive clone from Dollar General was exactly the same geometry, with one blade. I could achieve complete reduction, but no evacuation of the follicle, for an old-timey, two-pass WTG type shave. ATG I could have dug all day, there just wasn't enough exposure.

Today I went back to my roots with the Sensor, and because of the Trac II experiment, immediately identified the traction problem. One pass WTG and I already had a weeper under my mouth. My hair is just too hard. BUT I got a close shave; there is enough exposure to go ATG, and holding the skin back made the difference between weeps and flaying! What is the one-blade equivalent of Sensor?

Finding my travel razor solution doesn't solve the larger societal issue. The only way I could figure out how to shave with a cartridge with satisfactory results -- a close shave and comfort -- was to follow my instincts and online guidance all the way back to the open blade. TWO YEARS. NOT ACCEPTABLE. It makes me sad, and a little angry.

"Use good technique: Shave with light, gentle strokes. Your razor should do the work, not you. Start shaving with the grain (in the direction of hair growth). Then if necessary, go against the grain for an even closer shave."
http://gillette.com/en-us/shaving-tips/how-to-shave/shaving-sensitive-skin

Wrong!

p38thadl said:

It took me two years to realize that the curvature of the top cap does the same thing as fingers holding the skin back as you push the edge through hair.

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Not sure how the top cap can do this when it is moving in the same direction as the edge of the blade. If anything, the bar that precedes the edge of the blade (part of the base plate) is what stretches the skin . . . although how much it does so is debatable.

It's slipping on lather, but retracting the skin geometrically. So the only emphasis is on the word "back." Forward stretching makes burn worse by helping the blade accidentally split the skin. But backward tension is transmitted from the skin to the blade via the hair. It is the skin-parallel component of the cutting force. Contributes almost nothing to burn.

Together with a low angle of attack, it's why the open blade (in the right hands) tends to be the most comfortable shave. You can't change the cartridge's angle of attack, but you can mitigate some of the damage.

Perhaps a better way to look at it is to say that the skin under the cap is moving away from THE EDGE faster than the hair. Like an airplane wing.