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Anyone familiar with Panerai watches?

I am thinking of buying a new watch for my graduation and am gravitating towards Panerai. I like the base models but I there are a lot of fakes floating around and I could use some guidance.
 
I've had a few. Nice watches, fairly large. Not a problem if you're a bigger guy, or comfortable with the look.

What guidance do you
need?

I always thought I could spot a fake, but they've gotten incredibly good. I can still tell on some fakes by listening to the sounds from the movement, but opening up the case is the only surefire way.
 
I'm specifically looking at the base models with the sapphire case back. The Pam 112 is first on the list but since it's uses a Unitas movement it is faked very well. I only have a few pictures of the movement from one I am looking at but I still can't tell. Maybe you can help me out $ImageUploadedByTapatalk1426265165.171599.jpg$ImageUploadedByTapatalk1426265178.508582.jpg. Also do you know if it's possibly to fake the paperwork.
 
I am in a constant search for a Panerai, and have been for about 3 years now. I just haven't pulled the trigger because when I have the money I can't decide on which model, and to be honest I just waffle over the cost.
My suggestion to you is do your research. When buying preowned you are basically buying the previous owner. How well was it taken care of, who serviced it, has it ever been serviced and or course, is it authentic. I personally would pay a little more to feel confident on all those. If I had any question that it wasn't authentic , I would walk.
Personally , I think a Panerai at least a Luminor model must have a sandwich dial and a sub seconds hand. As far as the movement, an ETA is cheap to service but then you are paying a lot of money for a watch with a $300 movement. The in house Panerai work of art is probably the way to go but costs much more to service. I like 372, 312, and 510.

Do some reading here, there is a ton of great info :
http://www.paneristi.com/
 
Right now I am torn between a 312 and a 112 for the same reasons. I actually like that the 112 uses an eta movement because it is easy to service and is pretty tried and true vs the in house movements
 
You need to be a fairly big guy and have fairly big wrists to pull those off. If you buy, buy through a dealer. You will get a warranty and the watch will be authentic. Also be aware that you are paying a premium for a modified yet generic Unitas movement. Best of luck with your graduation, too!
 
Thanks I am still torn between going in house because I have read some things online but if I get a decent deal on a 312 or similar I might just take it. I really have to make it into the store to try them on. I'm not a big guy but not exactly small either so I think I can pull it off but I won't know until I try them
 
Go visit an official authorized dealer. No chance of a knockoff there.

In NYC, you have several choices, including Panerai's own store, plus Tourneau, Wempe, Cellini, etc.
 
Absolutely love panerai. I visited their store in Dubai and saw a lot of models that are amazing. Some newer ones are only available at an official store, not at an online retailer, so I agree on the advice above to check the official store first.
 
If you spend some time reading through the replica forums, you will see, as you already know, that PAMs are one of the most heavily counterfeited watches. They are very popular right now and they have spent a lot of time making them nearly identical to the real ones to all but trained watchsmith. Best bet is a Authorized Dealer or a forum like WUS, but I suspect you can't just hop on there and buy a high-end watch without any forum reputation unless you get a face to face.
 
There is no substitute for buying from an authorized dealer. EVER! Pay the upcharge and know that you have a real one.

Rolex estimates that 75% of the Rolex's in the world are fakes. Why take a chance?
 
There is no substitute for buying from an authorized dealer. EVER! Pay the upcharge and know that you have a real one.

Rolex estimates that 75% of the Rolex's in the world are fakes. Why take a chance?

Interesting statistic. I wonder what percentage of these Rolex fakes are trivial to detect and meant only to fool the general public, versus the very detailed replicas which are intended to fool the shopper of a used but legitimate Rolex.
 
The standard WISdom is to "buy the seller and not the watch". If you are buying new from an Authorised Dealer, you have nothing to fear. Should you wish to buy a used watch, you need to be comfortable that the guy selling it is doing the right thing.
 
Good advice about buying based on the seller's reputation. Though to be clear I am not looking to buy a Rolex, I am just curious about the market dynamics of Rolex and other high end watches (Panerai) and how much the fake watches skim off the top. Or from a total dollar value transacted, how does the fake market compare to the legitimate market. But like other "underground" activities I don't expect there is much good statistical data.
 
Interesting statistic. I wonder what percentage of these Rolex fakes are trivial to detect and meant only to fool the general public, versus the very detailed replicas which are intended to fool the shopper of a used but legitimate Rolex.

There is the whole spectrum of fake watches from the ultra-cheapies that are, as you say, trivial to spot by an average joe on the street (and usually bough on the street), right up to the super-detailed ones that only a true watch-person or watchsmith could tell. There is a whole culture around high-end "1:1 replicas" that are probably 95% or better in appearance but 10-15% of the cost of a real one. A "good" replica PAM runs 450-600 USD. Only a close inspection and comparison of things like dial color, date font, and marking alignment give them away, and of course the movement as well is Chinese, not Swiss. Even then however, with the prevalence of display casebacks, they have put a lot of effort into making the visible parts of the movements appear genuine.

I think for the most part that the replicas are for the replica crowd rather than to deceive as a genuine watch, but there will always be a percentage of those trying to pass one off as genuine. I know that the big genuine watch forums have active "is this fake" forums and surprisingly so do the bigger replica forums who will out Ebay and other sellers trying pass replicas as genuine. I think they feel that knowingly owning, buying and trading in replicas is one thing but trying to fraudulently pass it off is a different thing.
 
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Congrats on the upcoming graduation. They are nice watches. I've tried a few on, but never pulled the trigger on one. I;d say go to an AD and try them on in person to be certain which one you want. Once you've made that decision, there are a few online specialty watch forums that have trusted sellers that regulary sell nice pre-owned (sometimes new) watches at a reasonable cost (sometimes still stamped paperwork from an AD with warranty). I have found this to be one of the safest ways save on high(er) priced watches.
 
That one looks pretty good, but I'd this is your first and possibly only,I would just buy from a dealer/retailer.

You might be able to find used one from a reputable dealer. There are quite a few
 
Ah, I remember the days when, before Cartier/Vendome Group/Richemont bought the Panerai name, one could find a real, original used Panerai that had been worn by an actual Italian military frogman. Rolex movements in many of them. $300.00 way back when. No one wanted them. Long ago and far away. I was dumb and didn't buy one when I could. Now, forget about that.

I can't tell you anything about replicas, other than that the value proposition is not the same as the real thing. Personally, I wouldn't buy a replica of any watch. But that's just me.

On the topic of authentic modern watches, there is a huge grey market. Most brands produce far more watches than their retailers can sell at full retail and stay in business (even though luxury watch business seems very healthy these days).

Most brands do what they can to discourage the grey market, but at the same time their production/capacity planning feeds it. All those watches go somewhere. Authorized retailers need to turn over merchandise and generate cash flow.

There is a significant industry of secondary sellers who buy inventory at deep discounts (because they are buying in volume) from authorized dealers. The brands hate this.

One can find some brand and models discounted at grey market dealers, BUT you really need to vet who you are dealing with and ask the right questions. Because of the way some brands police the integrity of their brand names and distribution channels, secondary/grey market dealers will sell watches with serial numbers filed off. Obviously this voids not only factory warranties, but also assures that factory service can't be had even outside of warranties. This used to be (and might still be) a pattern with TAG Heuer and Omega. You could get these at deeper discounts with numbers removed. The idea was to make the watch impossible to trace back to the original, leaky authorized dealer. I am not aware of anyone doing this with Panerai. With many of the high-end brands there are some dealers who sometimes deface warranty certificates -- again, to inhibit traceability back to authorized dealers. A brand's best weapon to fight this process (transshipping it's called) is to catch and punish the leaky dealers. Rolex and Cartier are champions at this. The punishment is the death penalty -- in this business that means pulling your brand from a dealer. Losing Rolex at many retailers is potentially lethal and least severely disabling.

There are watch portals that do the same kind of thing that B&B and TSN do for the shaving universe. You should visit those. You can find all kinds of info and see who the advertisers are.

Because of the tight distribution channels on Panerai, you should not expect deep discounts on grey goods nor on used. But the brand tends to retain a decent value on the secondary market.

There are reputable dealers of second-hand (read: used) watches and there are not-so-reputable dealers. There are also some folks who can be trusted on grey goods (grey goods being authentic watches sold through unauthorized channels).
 
I actually joined a watch forum in order to do some more research on Panerai and while I was there a member posted a Breitling Superocean for a very fair price. This being another watch that I have wanted for a long time I pulled the trigger so for now the Panerai will have to wait but thanks to everyone for the help
 
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