Are Counterfeits a Problem

Good morning. Being new to buying shaving equipment, I was wondering if knockoffs are a problem in razors, like in knives, watches,,,, well everything it seems.

i just paid about 20 more dollars for a razor to buy it from a known vendor than to buy it on Amazon. Aside from the fact that I like to support the "Mom n Pop", was this prudent or paranoid?

Maybe razors are too niche of an item to have enough profit in counterfeiting?

Welcome! Not saying it couldn't happen, but it is unlikely.

I think all modern razors are pretty much replicas of razors from the past.

I don't think it's cost effective for someone to counterfeit a Merkur let's say. Instead they will make a lighter, plastic version and sell it for dirt cheap. They are all over ebay. Razors selling for $2-4 bucks w/free shipping.

If you see a razor at a price that rings an alarm...move on. When buying on Amazon just look for a good return policy and read the reviews. I got my first razor off Amazon along with other goods. There are plenty of good sellers there.

I'm fairly certain that some of the carts I've bought from the far east have been counterfeit, then again Gillette too make some awful product

if we are talking about razor blades...then yes there are fakes out there. I've used a few on purpose and they are simply horrible.
Buy from reputable sellers.

When reading the reviews on Amazon be aware many are faked by suppliers and manufacturers, both the good and the bad reviews. I generally ignore the 1's and 5's. While Amazon may not be intentionally cheating the buyers the same may not be true for the suppliers, many of whom are in Asia. The products may not be fakes but, based on many reviews are seconds or QC rejects. I tend to go with known, trusted US dealers.

Well, i have seen "Omega" brushes made in China. The box is the same, the only difference being "Made in China" writing. The brush looks being poor quality. Less hairs, you see glue around them. Also, they run at around $2.

But i did not saw too many well done counterfeit products. This might happen on watches or knives. They look good. But on DE shaving it is kinda niche market, so buyers know products pretty well. There are not many chances to see counterfeit Merkurs as, probably, they will cost too much to be made in the first place, and there is not so big market for them.

On Amazon, if you see the model name and the brand of the razor, there are not many chances for that razor to be counterfeit. For example, you migh see "Edwin Jagger razor" instead of "Edwin Jagger DE89". Or simply "safety razor" in the title, even if you see the writing "Edwin Jagger" on it. Those might be fake. This is how they do with knives. But again, not so many chances.

Doesn't Ikon essentially copy/clone/counterfeit pretty much all of their razors?

I'm a big Amazon prime user but I rarely buy any shave related items from them. I stick with our usual vendors. Not as worried about knockoffs as I am that it may be old stock or, in the case of creams, melting in a hot warehouse.

Back in the cold war days there were eastern bloc knockoffs of Gillette TTO razors, including a slim adjustable. That's a clone I wouldn't mind having, just for the historical significance.

Rockminer said:

Doesn't Ikon essentially copy/clone/counterfeit pretty much all of their razors?

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A counterfeit is one that passes itself off as a well-known brand name. If a razor is made in Asia and it is packaged and labeled to appear to be a Merkur 34C, then it is a counterfeit. If it merely copies a design, but it clearly labeled as being made in Asia, there is no problem, assuming that patents have expired.

When IKon's owner (Greg Kahn) was a member (Pureslab) and posting on this board, I made a comment that it would be nice to see a DE razor with an Asymmetrical head. Safety bar on one side, Open Comb on the other. He quoted me and responded "Hmmmm ... that's a good idea." A few months later, IKon began to produce such a razor. I've always wondered if he stole my idea, but even if he did, there is little I can do about it.

It really depends. If we're going on that path, any razor is a copied Gillette patent somehow. Now, about counterfeiting, iKon does not counterfeit any razor, that's for sure. They sell them as their owns, and do not try to sell them with "original" branding. So it's not the case. About copying, again, not so big of a problem, as long as there are some distinct characteristics between the original and the "copy". Cloning is harder, as they would need to clone the original manufacturer markings and branding too.

As an parallel, i'm pretty passionate about guitars. And there were many lawsuits based on counterfeiting in this domain. But, as a general rule of thumb, headstocks are used to differentiate guitars. So, i can produce an Gibson copy, the same body, the same neck, the same materials and specifications. As long as i don't copy their logo or headstock shape and i sell it under my own company, that guitar design will not be seen as a copy or a clone.
The same might go for razors. As the heads are functional parts and can be pretty much the same between two razors, i thing they do this thing regarding the handle. So they just try to differentiate the handle.

dpm802 said:

A counterfeit is one that passes itself off as a well-known brand name. If a razor is made in Asia and it is packaged and labeled to appear to be a Merkur 34C, then it is a counterfeit. If it merely copies a design, but it clearly labeled as being made in Asia, there is no problem, assuming that patents have expired.

When IKon's owner (Greg Kahn) was a member (Pureslab) and posting on this board, I made a comment that it would be nice to see a DE razor with an Asymmetrical head. Safety bar on one side, Open Comb on the other. He quoted me and responded "Hmmmm ... that's a good idea." A few months later, IKon began to produce such a razor. I've always wondered if he stole my idea, but even if he did, there is little I can do about it.

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I understand now, I would agree that a person who uses mostly everyone else's designs and ideas (yours) is different than trying to copy the entire packaging, look, etc.

I wouldn't worry about the autheticity of shaving stuff as much as I would buying a Martin guitar in China.

I buy stuff from Amazon sometimes, I've never had a problem. Most of the stuff is sold on Amazon through known shaving product suppliers. For instance, I bought some Floïd from Amazon and it had an invoice from Royal Shave in the box and was sent from them. I have Prime so Free Shipping is attractive for me if I'm not planning on blowing $65, $75 bucks for free shipping from the usual vendors. (Though I try to plan my orders, sometimes you have an impulse buy or four. )

sub vet said:

When reading the reviews on Amazon be aware many are faked by suppliers and manufacturers, both the good and the bad reviews. I generally ignore the 1's and 5's. While Amazon may not be intentionally cheating the buyers the same may not be true for the suppliers, many of whom are in Asia. The products may not be fakes but, based on many reviews are seconds or QC rejects. I tend to go with known, trusted US dealers.

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In the past 12 months or so, I've noticed that Amazon has been reallllly lax about who they accept s vendors now. Lots of complaints about misleading descriptions, packages and contents that are completely different than what was described.
I prefer the smaller but still well known 'mom and pop' type retailers over an anonymous mystery vendor.

Amazon is actually a very safe place to shop as they have a 100% return policy. If there is anything wrong with your product, they send a pre-labeled sticker with postage, and schedule the pickup. Hard to beat service like that.

Rockminer said:

Doesn't Ikon essentially copy/clone/counterfeit pretty much all of their razors?

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A lot of iKon's designs are heavily inspired by / copies of vintage razors. The Deluxe OC is more or less a copy of the Gillette New Deluxe, not the most common razor out there, and iKon's is stainless steel. The Gillette patent has expired, so they're not infringing anything. While some people complain that iKon should be innovating and developing new designs, several people have conversely wished for a New LC in stainless, myself included. Also, as someone else pointed out earlier, all DE safety razors are based on an expired Gillette patent anyway.

Counterfeiting? With DE? There is far greater profit potential in counterfeiting mass-market mainstream cartridges, so that is where it happens. Estimates vary, but as many as 80% of Fusion blades bought on eBay are counterfeit.
Posting links brings problems with the TOU, but you can find supporting information if you start on Google and search "counterfeit razors". There are several links to a history of counterfeit Fusion and Mach3 blades.
It appears there is good enough money to be made in the DE market by representing products for what they are, be they prized vintage razors or down to Chinese Weishis. 100-packs of individually wrapped blades would be hard to manufacture without the requisite equipment. With brushes selling upwards of $100, it would make sense that a counterfeiter could profiteer there.

JaredB said:

Good morning. Being new to buying shaving equipment, I was wondering if knockoffs are a problem in razors, like in knives, watches,,,, well everything it seems.

i just paid about 20 more dollars for a razor to buy it from a known vendor than to buy it on Amazon. Aside from the fact that I like to support the "Mom n Pop", was this prudent or paranoid?

Maybe razors are too niche of an item to have enough profit in counterfeiting?

Click to expand...

In my opinion, counterfeit products are always a problem, regardless of industry or end-user. Forgery is a form of fraud, and I am not that cheap of a person to support it.
I would pay the price and get the product that is a result of hard work of talented people. I would not "save a buck" only to buy the knockoff made by some criminals.

But hey, we all have our price, some people are cheaper than others.

Why would a manufacturer tool and staff a factory to produce something that costs as much to produce and is inferior to the original only to sell it for less than the original?

I'm convinced those razors and blades we are calling counterfeit are actually seconds and rejects from the original manufacturer. Amazon and similar "clearing houses" are a great way to offload inferior products. Amazon doesn't care and won't be held accountable, the blame will reflect back on the supplier who will claim ignorance. The strategy is that if more than one party can be blamed then no one will be held accountable.