Question for the SE afficionados?

coase said:

Except for injectors, I have not found SE to be better than DE and often worse and harsher. I think for those who need more aggressive shavers it may deliver something "vaguely" (waving hands here) akin to a straight. I keep a collection of SEs because I find them attractive, but haven't found a single one that I would prefer to my three or four best DE razors. And I find the lack of blade choices annoying and uninspiring.

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Probably because the SEs were far more forgiving in my inexperienced hands 60-plus years ago, I used those first. I was only aware of electric shavers, Gillette DEs, and Gem SEs until I got to college. then, I bought a couple of Injectors, and IMO, it was like cheating to get such good shaves with so little effort!

I can get a great shave with a DE, Injector, and SE. It is far easier to do so using the two kinds of SE, and definitely easiest of all with the Injectors.

coase said:

Except for injectors, I have not found SE to be better than DE and often worse and harsher. I think for those who need more aggressive shavers it may deliver something "vaguely" (waving hands here) akin to a straight. I keep a collection of SEs because I find them attractive, but haven't found a single one that I would prefer to my three or four best DE razors. And I find the lack of blade choices annoying and uninspiring.

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Two causes to harsh SE shaves, poor blade angle & improper loading of the blade, the angle should be shallow or much like a straight razor. When loading the blade you should have a tiny gap between the spine & razor bed. Regardless of the SE model, this video is a must watch for general tips, blade loading begins @3:35.

Carbon Blades do need to be dried, a quick wipe across the towel, spine first & both sides, followed by a very light coat of Mineral or Olive oil keeps my blades from rusting.

mftoms59 said:

Two causes to harsh SE shaves, poor blade angle & improper loading of the blade, the angle should be shallow or much like a straight razor. When loading the blade you should have a tiny gap between the spine & razor bed. Regardless of the SE model, this video is a must watch for general tips, blade loading begins @3:35.

Carbon Blades do need to be dried, a quick wipe across the towel, spine first & both sides, followed by a very light coat of Mineral or Olive oil keeps my blades from rusting.

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Very true. When I started with the SE razors, I watched a video on their use. The angle is very different. What blades are you using? A freind, knowing that I use SE razors gave me some blades. They were scrapper blades, as he did not know there are different categories of SE blades.

I find the PFTE blades I get from Connaught to be very good. Providing smooth shaves for many days.

I agree. Shaves are very similar. SE blade is more rigid and lasts somewhat longer. I bought an SE initially due to some very cool early designs like the Damaskeene.

mreed said:

I use both, don't really notice a difference. The SE with a carbon blade shaves great the first time only. The blade will start to rust once wet and not yeild a smooth shave the second time (imo). I've been told the coated or stainless SE blades are great and last 2 or 3 times longer than a DE blade.

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I think BSAGuy touches on the key in post just above this...the SE blade is twice as thick as the DE blade (injector blade is another 10% thicker still.) I believe that this leads to less "chatter," or flexing, when you shave, which in turn leads to fewer surprises...read nicks, cuts, weepers, etc. And I suspect that this characteristic explains why ATG is so magical with an SE...chatter is magnified when going against the grain (i.e., the "wrong" direction) to the detriment of double edge shaving.

After about four months at this, I definitely find that my SE shaves are consistently _both_ more efficient (that is, closer, with an equal number of passes) _and_ flat-out closer...meaning that no number of passes gets me as close with a DE as I do with an SE. The efficiency advantage is especially obvious when I don't shave for a few days. I had the flu, and let my beard go for four or five days, but my Micromatic open comb (MMOC) never twitched. I _might_ get close to that result with an open comb DE, too...I have Old Types, and NEW SC and LC...but I think the MMOC is really the champ in that situation. And when I am shaving daily (which is usually) I find that even the rather mild Contour is better than a comparable DE...I have a no-date-code SuperSpeed and an early 50's Tech, both lovely razors with great reputations, but close...nah, never like i get with a SE. Really, some days I finish and feel that I'll never need to shave again, so close do I get.

I'll confess that the lack of blade options is too bad...picking a favorite (or a few) from all those DE blades is kinda fun...but after a while it gets old, too, and I just want to get on with shaving...I pick up my "1912" Ever Ready with the elegant, Deco handle, and off I go!

Give a PTFE blade a shot, watch that video about blade angle (though, indeed, I never have myself) and try again a few times...you might just be one of the lucky few!

regards to all

GEMS seem to have a angle build in to the Razor head. I get the best shaves from GEM Razors most of the time.

I like SE and there is no reason to it. Its simply using a different tool that requires of different techinque to achieve the desired result. That I like a lot about shaving and shaving history.

I use SE and DE interchangeably. I love them both but have learned that each razor is different. Last night I used my Damaskene w/Pal carbon blade, shave before that was '66 Slim Adjustable w/Feather blade and so on. Both gave me BBS shaves but they each require a different angle. Your shave soap/cream and pre-shave prep are very important as well. You don't have to spend big $$ for supplies, just watch, read, learn and practice. The best part of all of this, is that we are using razors that in some cases are 80-100 years old and still outperform the new junk that fills the store shelves today. Good luck in your quest.

Pepin said:

Very true. When I started with the SE razors, I watched a video on their use. The angle is very different. What blades are you using? A freind, knowing that I use SE razors gave me some blades. They were scrapper blades, as he did not know there are different categories of SE blades.

I find the PFTE blades I get from Connaught to be very good. Providing smooth shaves for many days.

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My preferred blade is Carbon Steel (CS), Love the Black PAL, and I'm currently using Treet CS. I do a palm strop before the first use, 4xs each side, and only after my first shave, a light swipe of Safflower oil on each side (any oil will work, I just had plenty of this on-hand).

The PFTE blades didn't work as well for me, even after a palm strop, but they were decent after a corking. I've tried the Paint Scrappers as well, tolerable first shave and that as all, not worth the $4 per 100.

aldomarino said:

What's the advantage of this over DE? Is there any? What am I missing? Or, is it just the allure of being an odd minority out of an already small minority? The appeal of just being different?

Or, is it actually possible to get a better shave with one of these?

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I've never tried a DE. When I stopped having a beard and decided to shave I was on a strict budget. DEs with the high cost for a decent razor and then spending money on a blade sampler pack to try to find the right blade seemed like trial and error I couldn't afford.

Instead for less than $30, I picked up a GEM 1912, 100 Treet CS blades, a few sticks of Arko, a puck of Williams, and an Ecotools finishing kabuki brush. I wasn't a big fan of Williams, but everything else worked just fine. I like that I was able to pick up a few more razors for about the cost of a pint of cider. One came with some free Stainless Steel blades. My face hated those. The day I fist held an Every Ready Shovel Head I fell in love. Then I fell in love with the Open Comb Micromatic OCMM). I still switch back and forth between them.

I mainly find myself using Arko with the Shovel Head and my TOBS Rose with the OCMM. I've been happy with the results and haven't needed a reason to try a DE yet. I like reading about DE razors and the slant thing seems interesting, but I'm not ready to learn a new technique yet. I easily get BBS from my setup, and my styptic stays dry and in its drawer.

I learned to shave with a Gillette DE and still have and use them.

Tried a Gem long ago and wasn't that impressed but recently acquired a couple when the wife's uncle passed. Cleaned them up, hunted down some Gem blades at a local drugstore and loved them!

Great shave and less irritation.

I'm hooked and now have several SE razors and not only shave with them but have started collecting the dang things too.

I'd have to say I like both styles. The SE razors have a certain old school quality that I like and the results are very good. Blade angle is different in that generally they are held flatter to the face. I love the old Gillettes but I like my GEMs also. Lately I have been using a GEM micromatic G Bar that may wind up as my favorite. Very forgiving razor, great when I need to get ready for work and have to hurry up a little bit. BBS with no irritation or other problems. And it cost me 13 bucks in like new condition! Overall I'd say having a few SE's in the lineup makes for more choices for your shave and thats what keeps it interesting for me.