Tempted to upgrade to E61 machine

I have a Crossland CC1 (paired with a Vario) which makes me a fine cup of espresso. It's almost 3 years old and is out for a repair right now, and now our annual bonus has been announced at ~4.75% and I'm thinking of going for a new espresso machine. I have an old "espresso machine wishlist" hanging out that lists:
>E61
>No-burn steam arm
>Plumb/tank convertible
>Drip tray plumbable
>Simultaneous steam/brew

And I found a machine that fits that bill a few months ago, a Quick Mill Andreja Premium. It's a lot of money though, triple what I paid for my CC1, so even if I could sell the Crossland and recoup some of its cost that's a lot of money for a high power machine I probably don't need. Especially since, due to my wife's vitriol over the smell of espresso, it only gets used for weekday morning espresso shots/lattes.

I do admit this is an aesthetic and at least partially an "upgrade-itis" situation, but I could use some input as to if my shots will improve greatly having an E61.

Quick Mill has a pretty decent reputation.

If it were me I would spend the couple extra dollars and get their entry level dual boiler QM67 model.

Just saying

https://www.chriscoffee.com/Quickmill-QM67-p/992.htm

Quicklime makes a great machine. I have a Rancillio Silvia that I installed a Quickmill pressure gauge and a PID. This is about $1,100.00 in machine and add-ons.

I put my espresso spreadsheet together about a year ago when I upgraded from a Gaggia Classic. I had most of the same wants as your list. I ended up with a Expobar Office Lever Plus. Dual gauges, no-burn wand, E-61, and plumbable for a little over $1,100. It's been fantastic for the past year and I use it every day. Got it from Whole Latte Love and they've been a great vendor. Here's a link.
http://www.wholelattelove.com/products/expobar-office-lever-plus-semi-automatic-espresso-machine

Gig103 said:

I do admit this is an aesthetic and at least partially an "upgrade-itis" situation, but I could use some input as to if my shots will improve greatly having an E61.

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Consistency and ease of use were significantly improved when I upgraded from my Silvia (which had a PID) to my Duetto 3.0. My worst shots with the Duetto seem as good as or better than some of my better shots with the Silvia.

I don't have much experience with the CC1 but the one I used from the CoffeeGeek tour seemed a bit easier to use than the Silvia so I'm not sure what you'll experience versus your expectations. You may be disappointed if you're expecting a threefold improvement in the cup based on price. There's a lot less plastic compared to the CC1. If you can plumb in the convenience is that much greater versus a reservoir machine.

Being able to pull a shot and steam at the same time was a major plus coming from the Silvia. I never used Silvia in the morning before work because of how long it took to make milk drinks. However, I use my Duetto every morning to make a latte for both me and my wife before heading out the door. The CC1 has a thermoblock for steaming that cuts down the transition time but you may still find some time savings there.

turtle said:

If it were me I would spend the couple extra dollars and get their entry level dual boiler QM67 model.

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Looks like a $100 difference and the QM67 comes with a $75 gift certificate. If plumbing and/or buying other accessories that could come in handy. I used the softening and filtration kit from Chris Coffee and found it very easy to install. I'd also recommend getting a pressure regulator if plumbing.

Sounds great from a coffee enjoyment perspective. But from what you have said (especially WAF), I recommend deferring any purchase until after the Crossland CC1 comes back from service and been used for a few weeks...to see if the upgrade desire is still strong.

I've had my Andreja Premium for over 10 years now and it still functions beautifully on a daily basis. I do steam milk for drinks on the weekend and it functions great for that too - no need in my book for a double boiler for one drink.

I remember going through the exact sticker shock you are, but if you consider that I've pulled an average of 2 shots/ day for 10 years its not so bad. Frankly its cheap. I've replaced the vibe pump a few times, the seals a few times, and some other parts over the years. But Chris Coffee is fantastic to deal with and very knowledgeable about the equipment. And its a very DIY friendly setup.

Thanks for the feedback, folks. I am no closer to a new machine, especially since we are now talking about a master bath remodel. But it's still in the back of my mind and hopefully when my CC1 is back I will be able to enjoy my coffee. Simultaneous steam and brew would be nice but I don't drink cappuccinos as often as just shots. Otherwise I think I would have skipped the Crossland back then.

Simultaneous steam and brew is over rated for home use.

In a production (coffee shop) setting where time is important (get em all out quickly) it will be a game changer but at home where you are pulling 1 or maybe 2 shots every half hour you are going to be steaming then brewing anyway as you won't be competent enough to multi task (unless you are late to your barista job).

Saving 30 seconds at a cost of $1k is a pretty poor trade off. Spend the extra cash on a good grinder and get better tasting coffee not faster production

turtle said:

Simultaneous steam and brew is over rated for home use.

In a production (coffee shop) setting where time is important (get em all out quickly) it will be a game changer but at home where you are pulling 1 or maybe 2 shots every half hour you are going to be steaming then brewing anyway as you won't be competent enough to multi task (unless you are late to your barista job).

Saving 30 seconds at a cost of $1k is a pretty poor trade off. Spend the extra cash on a good grinder and get better tasting coffee not faster production

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So you would say that a grinder above a Vario would yield better coffee in my existing CC1, rather than continuing to use the Vario with one of the E61 machines (Rocket, QM, Alex)?

Gig103 said:

So you would say that a grinder above a Vario would yield better coffee in my existing CC1, rather than continuing to use the Vario with one of the E61 machines (Rocket, QM, Alex)?

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I had a Verio-W for quite a while.

It IS a nice grinder but the flavor from my Super Jolly convinced me to make the Vario-W a dedicated brew grinder (coarser grinding duties).

When I foo bared it up trying to swap out the ceramic burrs for steel ones Barataz took it back and gave me a deal I could not refuse on a Forte BG (with steel burrs). Never regretted moving on

The grinder "bull pen" from a few years ago with the Vario-W in the line up




The current grinder "bull pen"

If you are only pulling one or two shots a day then I think you are aiming too high. Most double boiler units are designed to be used tenfold of your intentions. I have a Rancillio Lady Silvia with a PID and been pulling shots from it since 2007, it works fine. Don't get me wrong, I'd love a machine that matches your wish list but for me it would be overkill.
Wait until you get your machine back from the shop and live with it for a bit. Spend $200 on a light roaster and that money will be better spent.

I do not want to convey the impression that the Vario is not suited for espresso and it should be acceptable to you if you upgrade to a better espresso machine. I just wanted to impress that there are better alternatives should you decide to move forward. The Vario is a killer brew grinder. VERY consistent. It is a good product and not one to take lightly no matter what task you put it to

Beside what Mick (@turtle) says I might second @jumper comments. That the best upgrade you could do is to spend $300 on getting a Behmor 1600 (or spend more (like a hottop) or less (popcorn popper) depending on your budget and desires)....but the main point being is that always having fresh roasted coffee on hand will have a more significant impact on your taste buds.

I appreciate the comments about a roaster, but have to admit it has never been an interest of mine. I buy fresh roasted coffee online which is delicious and hassle free. I personally do not detect a difference in beans that have been previously frozen either so I can buy bulk and get free shipping.
I am rarely disappointed in my espresso from the CC1, and those times I am are barista error. I think I just 'want it', which is sometimes enough, but probably not this time around. It helps to talk it out with folks though!

If you are buying freshly roasted coffee, you are certainly doing it right. No complaints from the peanut gallery.

Gig103,

Im tempted to upgrade too to something like you posted, but s but different. Ive been on the fence for a couple months because of the price jump.

Did you go through with a purchase?

global_dev said:

Gig103,

Im tempted to upgrade too to something like you posted, but s but different. Ive been on the fence for a couple months because of the price jump.

Did you go through with a purchase?

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No, I'm holding off since the CC1 does a fine job (probably the best for the money) of making espresso, despite not being fancy.

I have a Fiorenzato Bricoletta it's the only Pro-sumer machine Fiorenzato makes, all the others are large commercial machines..
The Bricoletta (Brick) is missing a few of your wants
It's tank or pump and no drain from tray..
This is a super well made machine and is duty rated at 300+ cups a day..
I have had mine for five years and was only $1K back then and no problems..
Some days I wish I had a dual boiler but I'm not willing to spend $2.5K to own one
Check out 1st Line.com in NJ, if your on the east coast

I just got word that Crossland fully refurbished my machine. Instead of just repairing the bleed valve, they put in a whole new boiler, portafilter gasket, and upgraded steam arm! It's like a refurbished brand new machine.

So that should make me thrilled, except now I'm back on the 'upgrade train'. My logic is that a refurbished machine is worth more than a used one, so I might be able to recoup a good chunk towards that QuickMill. I'm also re-evaluating plumb-in because the upgrade from Anita to Andreja Premium is $300 for that option. But I feel like 'buy once cry once' if this machine lasts as long as I hope then if we ever remodel the kitchen I could plumb it at that time.

toyman said:

I put my espresso spreadsheet together about a year ago when I upgraded from a Gaggia Classic. I had most of the same wants as your list. I ended up with a Expobar Office Lever Plus. Dual gauges, no-burn wand, E-61, and plumbable for a little over $1,100. It's been fantastic for the past year and I use it every day. Got it from Whole Latte Love and they've been a great vendor. Here's a link.
http://www.wholelattelove.com/products/expobar-office-lever-plus-semi-automatic-espresso-machine

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That is quite the machine as it hits my wish-list for hundreds less!