No guard DE?

Hi Gytis,
I just noticed you have completed shave no.30 with the same blade. How did you do that? Can we just use the DE blade like the regular straight edge and strop it before each shave? Wow! If everyone masters this technique all the DE blade companies will be out of business soon! Please let me know how you achieved 30 shaves on this single blade. Best regards,

Viseguy said:

Ditto the ATT H1 and H2, but the devette can't be beaten for ultimate closeness with the least effort.

I have a vacation coming up, and obviously I'm going to be taking a devette, but the harder question is, should I be taking any other razor as well. Well, not so hard -- there's always room in the suitcase for another razor.

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I realise the devette must be my travel razor too.
The other great thing about it is how slow my beard regrowth is when I have shaved with the devette.
On holiday with the devette I can easily go 36hrs between shaves and still look super smart!

And the R41 certainly challenged my notions of the devette's supremacy for a while, especially when I filed down my R41 cap to emulate the 2011/Spitfire.

I made a thread trying to compare the devette and R41, and for sure the R41 with narrow cap is the ultimate SAFETY razor being both amazingly efficient and incredibly smooth.

But the devette ISN'T a safety razor - it's an infinitely aggressive DE that is ultimately efficient, giving the best skin conditioning and the longest lasting shave as well as requiring and perfecting good technique. And it's fun fun fun

The R41 is the world's top safety razor for me, but the devette is undoubtedly THE GREATEST SHAVE ON EARTH!

Gytis said:

... As for the technique and razor relation I can only say that without good technique any razor will not give any good result. On the contrary, when you master your technique, almost all razors are good to use, then the difference is about your subjective impression, not the quality of shave.

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Words that should be inscribed on a building -- or a bathroom mirror.

Venkart - first of all I am sorry to hear some strange rules exist about entering any thread of the forum, I will contact mods again. If that does not work, I will PM you the best informative post as I really think it is a shame not to let you access information - the very essence of this forum.


About the 30 shaves - that is not a big deal at all. When I came across the Excalibur (some 10 blades ago?), I used to toss a blade after 4-3 shaves (now it is 20-30 shaves per good blade, or 1-3 per ... ok, no names), one vintage Sputnik was exception - 16 shaves (now get 29 of it). All I can say is that number of shaves are placed in our heads and have almost nothing to do with blades ability to cut. Rationale is here - there is no human hair that can ever dull a steel edge in 2 shaves (as there are 2 edges), that is unconventional truth. So the only reason I had 4-6 shaves was my technique. Gradually I adopted some things learned from Excalibur guys like bosse, jamespro and others. I will put down my routine. Please be aware that this my experience and ymmw etc., and I am not most experienced guy here, far from that. So that is my routine, sorry for many letters:


1. Pre-prep. To have a good shave I have to be calm and fresh, my skin too. So I shave in the morning, after I walk out my dogs (they would not let me shave otherways).


2. Prep. I use cold water exclusively. I do not need my pores open to cut my whiskers. I do not want my skin be excited, I need it calm. People say hot water makes whiskers softened, but I dont need that as I am sure stiff hair is much easier to cut than soft one. I feel it is better to have it staying erect than laying on my skin. When hair is soft and laying, I get a cut along the hair, not across. I think that is the cause of ingrown hairs. And finaly I forgot any irritation when started to cold shave. Those are the reasons I never shave after shower. And finaly - you have to try this twice to get in love with cold water.
So I lightly rinse my face with cold water and leave it wet while I make my lather. No other prep is needed for me.


3. Lather. If you have a good soap/cream, the main thing is get right consistency. I make lather on my palm - this way I feel best its consistency. It must be more watery than creamy for me. If it just falls appart befor it gets wet consistency, that is not a bad lather, rather bad soap. It must be wet enough to be applied to dry skin, next para will say why. It also must not loss its slickness. I check it with my dry fingers before I apply to my face.


4. Lathering. Before I put lather on the face, I rinse face once again, and then pat the face with dry towel so I have no wet face. Just patting, I dont need it completely dry.
That is important as I want to shave with lather, not water. Earlier I used to put lather on wet face and that was a hugest mistake of mine - regardless of lather I shaved with water, cant explain how that goes this way. When you put lather on the face, you can see and feel is it right or not. When started this way I noted that my lather usualy was not so wet as needed. It must be wet enough to get a good slide.
I do not make much of brush work, just to apply lather well, no more. I dont want my skin exfoliated, no need for this.


5. Shaving. I do two passes with new blade, two plus touch ups with weared one. Thanks bosse I eliminated first wtg pass alltogether and start with direction that is somewhere in middle of wtg and atg directions. For the second pass I go direction in between xtg and atg, more to xtg (xtg-xtg-atg?). Neck - two wtg-xtg passes. Touch ups if needed, freestyle.


I lather all my face initially and shave upper part (above my chin line) first. Then reapply lather for lower part as lather gets a little dry here before I go here. Usually I dip tips of the brush before I apply lather for second time to lower part.


I rinse off all the lather between passes and pat it with towel slightly. Then apply lather for the second pass. I dip tips of the brush in water and apply lather again if it is dry a little. The worst thing is to have too dry lather. Then rinse, pat dry with towel so my fingers can inspect the stubble, and next lather for touch up.


The angle. I try to avoid steep angle. It is like cutting bread at steep angle - poor result. The R41 can do that, but note - only with wtg and some xtg direction, atg will bring some pain and damage to the skin, though there are people that can do that too. Also steep angle tends to skip some whiskers when blade is not fresh. I am sure the steep angle is the reason for tugging problems, no blades fault. Dull blade just stops cutting, thats all. And sure, steep angle bends the edge a little. Though blade is made of steel, it dulls a little anyways. So - as much shallow angle as possible. I could not yet master shallow angle everywhere.


Direction. My stubble goes different directions, so I adjust it accordingly. As I said, I go wtg-xtg pass, and almost xtg-atg pass.


6. Aftershave. I wait for few (3?) minutes to get skin dried, and apply some alcohol based AS.


7. Blade policy. I shave with one edge of a blade during the shave and register in excell sheet how many shaves each of two edges has on. I do not toss a blade before I had two consecutive subpar (worse) shaves on an edge. That is what I learned from Excalibur - not to believe one bad shave. The reason is that initialy you will find the next shave after the bad one is much better and that means it was you, not the blade, that made something wrong. This way you can spot technique mistakes and work on them. If you toss a blade after first fail, no lessons will be learned. That is very, very important point in learning process. And sure you find that blades can go much further. This is the only way to learn to know when a blade is really dull and done. During my first trials the last shaves were bad ones, but after that I have no bad shaves at all. The blade just stops cutting and I still get an excellent shave. The only difference is seen with my fingers only, not visible by eye. I see the shave is not as close about half an hour after my shave. My teacher (I can call him so), bosse, evaluates quality of the shave only 7 hours later, when stubble can be felt.


8. Razors. I use devette exceptionally. It is R41 with washer instead of base plate. Still I dont think some other razors cant do the same. People reach the same results with different razors. I am sure the technique is the main ingredient.


Sorry for a long post again, you just asked how did I make 30 shaves (hey, that is faaaar less than is possible). I am glad if it helps somebody or gives some ideas to try out. If you found it usable, I can only recomend to read the Excalibur Club thread, there are big part of things I learned and adopted.

And please excuse my English, I still learn it. It is my third language, the worst one and very different from my native, especially the structure of sentence. Still I am happy to understand it well ))

p.s. I just forgot to mention I do not leave a blade in bathroom. I pat it dry with a towel and keeping outside. I also recently found hand stropping is also effective to prolong its life. Still not much experience on this, so will not go with details.

Had another go with the Silent Assassin this morning. Forgot how crazy close the shave was. Been a while since I used it, and she expressed her disapproval by taking a chunk of my fingernail during the wipe down process. I was very greatful she waited until after the shave to teach me my lesson in respect. The shave was great, only one little spot of irritation on my neck where I messed up my angle. What amazing results though, and they will get better as I improve my technique. I really need to add this to my regular rotation.

Venkat said:

Hi Gytis,
I just noticed you have completed shave no.30 with the same blade. How did you do that? Can we just use the DE blade like the regular straight edge and strop it before each shave? Wow! If everyone masters this technique all the DE blade companies will be out of business soon! Please let me know how you achieved 30 shaves on this single blade. Best regards,

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btw, I finaly found the thread on 128 shaves per blade by bosseb:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/448783-128-shaves-on-a-NOS-Wilkinson-blade

Thanks Gytis! I truly appreciate your help in giving the detailed steps. I have also gone through the thread on 128 shaves. It is very informative. I will try to work on my technique in the next 2-3 weeks. Thanks again for the great post!

Today I shaved with the Merkur 47C with the Astra SP Blade (4th shave) and the experience was remarkable. The result is almost equal to that of the Muhle R41. I am not very experienced in this area to pass a judgement. I just thought the shave was really fantastic. After going through Gytis's and other forum member's posts, I decided to try the shallow angle and there was ZERO irritation. I noticed this when I put the alum block I did not have any burning sensation at all. Needless to add that there are no cuts, tugs, weepers etc., I think using the shallow angle we can increase the number of shaves per blade. For the final touch up I put another Astra SP blade which has completed 8 shaves and I felt like there can be more shaves from that blade. I am going to work on the technique and see how many more shaves I can get from this Astra SP. Thanks Gytis for the informative post. I want to share the pictures of the Merkur 47C. This razor looks awesome and shaves fantastic!
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Nice razor, Venkart Will you try it without the base plate? Why cant I think the razor just as a razor, it looks I always consider making a devette???
I would suggest to try cold water shave, Venkart.... I know it feels scarry, but sometimes you just have to believe and try three days in a row )))

I don't know how to try without the base plate as the blade is kind of loose. After reading your post I am using only cold water. I have stopped usage of hot water altogether for the last couple of days. The cold water is perfect. When I started shaving with DE razor (several years back during my college days) I used only cold water and hot water was never heard of for shaving purposes. After coming to US the hot water is kind of flowing everywhere. I have got this Merkur and Muhle before trying the Devette. I just want to try these razors once in a while. Had I waited till the Devette shave, I would not have ordered these. Anyway we continuously make mistakes and learn from them. Your write up was very exhaustive and informative. I tried to follow the steps listed in your write-up except walking the dogs , as I don't have any pets. For the last few days I was using the steep angle instead of the shallow angle, unknowingly. After reading your post and other posts, I decided to experiment the shallow angle today and it was a resounding success! Only thing is in the neck area and the mustache area it is difficult to use the shallow angle. One good thing about this shallow angle is there are no irritations on the skin. I have used Proraso shave soap for the first time. (My daughter gifted me with this soap for fathers day!) Do you have any suggestions about converting this razor to a Devette? Can you please post some pictures of the Muhle R41 which you have converted to a Devette? I will keep updating the developments. Thanks again for the encouragements and motivations!!

This variant of the "BBX" razor featured in the forum Double Edge Razor thread No Guard DE? is on sale for $20 with prime shipping.


Note that it has no guard on one side only (thus "safety and straight"). Read the reviews.

I have not used it and make no assurances as to fit, finish, etc. I have ordered it, if only for the base plate.

dparish1952 said:

This variant of the "BBX" razor featured in the forum Double Edge Razor thread No Guard DE? is on sale for $20 with prime shipping.


Note that it has no guard on one side only (thus "safety and straight"). Read the reviews.

I have not used it and make no assurances as to fit, finish, etc. I have ordered it, if only for the base plate.

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It looks for me as regular DE razor as it has safety bar, so it cant be a devette or no guard DE.

Half-sider, laid the wrong way on the table. Easy reduction with the guarded side, then goes close with the naked edge.

There is a steep, sliding stroke I use with pressure around the jawline, too, that I would not like to undertake without a guard. My open comb razor got me into that, like using a steak knife to shave.

Venkat said:

I don't know how to try without the base plate as the blade is kind of loose. After reading your post I am using only cold water. I have stopped usage of hot water altogether for the last couple of days. The cold water is perfect. When I started shaving with DE razor (several years back during my college days) I used only cold water and hot water was never heard of for shaving purposes. After coming to US the hot water is kind of flowing everywhere. I have got this Merkur and Muhle before trying the Devette. I just want to try these razors once in a while. Had I waited till the Devette shave, I would not have ordered these. Anyway we continuously make mistakes and learn from them. Your write up was very exhaustive and informative. I tried to follow the steps listed in your write-up except walking the dogs , as I don't have any pets. For the last few days I was using the steep angle instead of the shallow angle, unknowingly. After reading your post and other posts, I decided to experiment the shallow angle today and it was a resounding success! Only thing is in the neck area and the mustache area it is difficult to use the shallow angle. One good thing about this shallow angle is there are no irritations on the skin. I have used Proraso shave soap for the first time. (My daughter gifted me with this soap for fathers day!) Do you have any suggestions about converting this razor to a Devette? Can you please post some pictures of the Muhle R41 which you have converted to a Devette? I will keep updating the developments. Thanks again for the encouragements and motivations!!

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1. With Muhle R41 the blade is loose without a base plate, so I just use a washer instead of base plate, like it is shown in this post . It MUST be firm.
2. Dont regret the razors, they all are fine, we just dont know how to use them before we learn devette. Today I tried Gilette G2000, it is considered as very mild razor, and got a tremendous shave I have not experienced before with this razor
3. Neck and mustache does not go shallow wtg direction, but other directions are ok. I dont use atg in these plase also as it brings irritation (for me).
4. Shallow angle does not bring irritation as it does not scrap the skin. It is difficult to believe, but it also can shave as close as steep angle too.
5. Converting the razor to devette is fine with razors that are not made of zamak. As far as I know all Muhles and Merkurs are made of zamak (I can be wrong with all the models though), so they will corrode very fast if the plating is damaged. But still you can use them without a base plate

It is interesting that knowing and using the devette makes all other razors better too.
As we say, it improves your technique so much that you get a better shave from every other razor too.
And somehow it makes every other razor more fun too.

For a while I struggled with "devette perfectionism" - it's just so good that I wondered why I would ever use any of my other razors again.
But then I realised that it was so much fun shaving with my other razors too but now I don't have to worry about getting the perfect shave with them because that is always waiting for me guaranteed with the devette.
So now the pressure's off and I enjoy all my shaves so much more since I can just accept them for what they are.
Is this razor polygamy?
All I know is the devette really does make all shaving better

And now Gentlemen, in what LTJ Bukum would call a Logical Progression here's the Sevette:
It's very reminiscent of a Praying Mantis and this is the wrong forum to discuss SEs but I thought y'all should know...
...and here's the new sevette thread:
http://www.badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=459766

O.K. Fellows,

i have been experimenting with a Devette for a few weeks now. I took a fat handle Tech and left off the base plate made four trimmed edge blade shims to put under the blade. And thus began my experiment. I have now completed 10 shaves with the devette and I have the following observations to make.

First, the Devette works very well, it's smooth, easy to control, and efficient in a way that no other razor can match. Through the ten shaves I have only experienced a couple of weepers. No nicks or cuts, and no irritation or razor burn has happened. My first shave I tried to shave with a super shallow angle. It wasn't a bad shave, but it wasn't great either and the blade would catch occasionally. I quickly adjusted the angle to a bit steeper and the razor smoothed right out. From then on I have tried a bit steeper and shallower angles and finally settled on an angle just a bit steeper than I use with the guard on the razor.

The razor shaves closer than any other razor I have tried. And is fun to use, but requires your full attention at all times. The chin and jaw to neck transition areas of the face take more care and attention to razor angle or you will get bitten by the blade. And the Adam's apple area is a bit tricky as well. But with care and patience these areas can be shaved with no damage.

I like how well this razor works and plan to keep experimenting with it for some time. But I don't yet believe that this set up is ideal. There is still too much blade flex with the set up I now have and I intend to cut down a base plate to remedy the problem soon. If this fixes the blade flex problem the Devette may become a regular part of my daily rotation. It will never be my only razor but could be a regular for me if the blade flex is fixed.

So count me as part of the club now, and a fun club it is...

dionesius3 said:

O.K. Fellows,

i have been experimenting with a Devette for a few weeks now. I took a fat handle Tech and left off the base plate made four trimmed edge blade shims to put under the blade. And thus began my experiment. I have now completed 10 shaves with the devette and I have the following observations to make.

First, the Devette works very well, it's smooth, easy to control, and efficient in a way that no other razor can match. Through the ten shaves I have only experienced a couple of weepers. No nicks or cuts, and no irritation or razor burn has happened. My first shave I tried to shave with a super shallow angle. It wasn't a bad shave, but it wasn't great either and the blade would catch occasionally. I quickly adjusted the angle to a bit steeper and the razor smoothed right out. From then on I have tried a bit steeper and shallower angles and finally settled on an angle just a bit steeper than I use with the guard on the razor.

The razor shaves closer than any other razor I have tried. And is fun to use, but requires your full attention at all times. The chin and jaw to neck transition areas of the face take more care and attention to razor angle or you will get bitten by the blade. And the Adam's apple area is a bit tricky as well. But with care and patience these areas can be shaved with no damage.

I like how well this razor works and plan to keep experimenting with it for some time. But I don't yet believe that this set up is ideal. There is still too much blade flex with the set up I now have and I intend to cut down a base plate to remedy the problem soon. If this fixes the blade flex problem the Devette may become a regular part of my daily rotation. It will never be my only razor but could be a regular for me if the blade flex is fixed.

So count me as part of the club now, and a fun club it is...

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Hi Dionesius! Nice to see you here. It seems to me you made a mistake with a setup - I suspect the shims instead of baseplate is causing blade flex (they are also flexible and there is no hard fix of a blade) and that is totally unacceptable with devette. Can you try put a washer, or even make a small baseplate out of old CD or something similar? I feel you will certainly feel the difference if flex is eliminated Good luck, friend

I picked up a Barbe Bleue Model XB on sale -- black matte finish; devette on one side, straight-bar on the other; and the handle is heavier and thicker than the BBX handle (does not fit in the BBX inkwell stand). I've only had one shave with it -- a quick, 2-pass + touchup this morning for BBS. The guarded side is aggressive -- about the same as my ATT H1 and H2 -- and works better on down strokes (handle facing down), while the devette side is ideal for upstrokes (handle facing up). All in all, a mighty nice razor for 20 bucks.

Oh, another nice feature of this semi-devette: the top cap and base plate are flush with the ends of the blade, which makes for easier loading. (Still need to be vewwy, vewwy careful, though.)

Straight-bar side:


Devette side:

I think the devette with one open and one guarded side has several advantages. First, its a good choice for guys that can not escape steep angle without pressure like Thad. Second, they can be put on guarded side. And third - it would be easier for me to know what edge do I use (I use only one edge during one shave because a lot of times I found edges of one blade are different in quality out of factory. Often I get very different numbers, like 11 shaves on one edge and 16 on the second etc.)