I am stuck.

I have 2 straights that I have been working on. I have bevel set on a 1k/3k synth, then moved to 5k and 8k superstones, finishing with a 12k natural working from slurry to water, followed by 30 canvas and 60 leather strop strokes.

I can cut a hanging hair with both, but cannot get a smooth shave from either. Any suggestions as to what I may be doing wrong or not enough of?

When you say 12k natural are you referring to a Chinese natural stone. If so performance can vary. They can be slow and require a lot of work to improve the 8k edge. Assuming the bevel was done well at the 1k, It could be that under the loop you will still see large scratches remaining from the 1/3. If that is the case, more time on the 3/5/8 will be needed. If not I would suggest spending more time on the 12k(used loosely) slurry and seeing what that does.

To be honest, I am not sure what the natural stone is. It is 2 5/8 wide, 7 long and 7/8 thick, very dark grey in color and came with a 1 1/4 x 2 1/4 matching slurry stone. I bought it along with the 1k/3k from a member here.

I did notice as I was measuring, It has "10-12k" written on the side. Maybe just not enough time on it then? And I really need to get a loop..

I would suggest seeing if you can get a good shaving edge off of the 8k super stone. Depending on your abilities with the natural, the slurry, and the stone itself, it may easily be a step backwards.

8k should give you a pretty good shave. In the learning stages, its not a bad idea to ''shave'' each grit to see the difference. Not a full shave at low grit, but 1k will take it all off. So this may be your ticket until your eyes and ears are more keen to whats happening.

thanks for the suggestions. I will try going back to the 8k and see what i can get.

Sounds like you have a Chinese stone that's sold as 12k but more than often isn't 12k at all.

Anyway - you can backpedal to 8k and see what you have. Me - I'd assume the Chug to be more mid-grit and I'd probably start at 5k.
But that's me. Hell - I'd actually probably start at the bevel because I hat pussyfooting around.
Nothing wrong with going backwards incrementally though.
Funnily enough - I remember another thread where I suggested that and some people thought it was wrong to say so.
It's not wrong. How you get where you're going is irrelevant, as long as you get there.

One thing though - many not-smooth shaves are the result of an improperly done bevel.

Me - I've never been a believer in the 'you can shave off 8k' theory - not without qualifying that further.
Me - I can WTG off 8k, and I know what to expect from that edge. But I'm not going to be terribly jazzed with an 8k XTG and I can just forget about ATG.
That's for me. So, if you're like me - you may find the same thing to be true for you.
Or - you might be like the guys that say 8k will give you a decent shave. So there's that.

The bevel though - is key to all of the above. No bevel = no edge.

Sure, and you can see how some people have ''raved'' about a 5k shave will say the 8 is no good. The op has an 8k and a cnat probably, so in this case the 8k may very well be better than a stone that we have no idea where it sits grit wise. So no I do not shave off an 8 k, but in this case decent would mean possibly better than the finisher if you want to call it that.

Keith, keep in mind, this is an 8k Naniwa, not norton. For Norton, I've found almost the same as you. I CAN do an 8k ATG pass, but I won't do it 99 times in a hundred because it is very uncomfortable, tugs a lot, and leaves me with a <3 hr shave. It's pointless to bother. And the irritation means I'll probably have to skip a day or two after.

6k JIS/Naniwa shaves are significantly better, but still not something I'd shave off willingly. 10k JIS however is fine, so I suspect that right around 8k JIS, shaves for many people will start to be acceptable.

With that said, I suspect that a good 8k JIS Synth edge will be significantly sharper than all but the very finest example of Cnat edges. For sharpness, I found Cnat shaves to fit right around the 6k JIS mark. With my best one maybe hitting the 8k mark. All were put to shame by a 10k edge, so I'd say that it's iffy, if not unlikely that a CNat would improve on the sharpness of an 8k JIS edge... but some people may find it more comfortable.

I finally got a couple minutes to snap some quick pics of the stone in question. It does look similar to the Chinese one that I have seen on amazon.

Maybe Cnat, or maybe one of the Welsh slates? I haven't looked at one of those in a very long time. Basically same story with them. Who knows what grit they are, but most people who assign a grit to them seem to massively overestimate it. Don't abandon the stone completely of course, but take a razor off your 8k, give it a good stropping, more than you typically would (synth edges love a good stropping), and see how it compares to off that stone.

Will do sir. I actually just sat down with it to give it another go.

SliceOfLife said:

Maybe Cnat, or maybe one of the Welsh slates? I haven't looked at one of those in a very long time. Basically same story with them. Who knows what grit they are, but most people who assign a grit to them seem to massively overestimate it. Don't abandon the stone completely of course, but take a razor off your 8k, give it a good stropping, more than you typically would (synth edges love a good stropping), and see how it compares to off that stone.

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EXCELLENT advice!

No additional advice, here, sfeile. I just want to commend you on the best avatar I've seen in quite a while. Later, Denny

Last night I re-finished on the 8k, then went with 50 laps on rough leather, and 100 on smooth leather. It will clip a hanging hair and does shine a bit more than the last edge. I can hear it when it cuts through the hair, is this good? It cuts clean and quick, it doesn't drag through, I just hear a quick "ting" as it cuts. Or should it be silent when it cuts? I THINK the grind is a half hollow. Should I take it to the strop a bit more before trying it tonight?

Thanks so much for the advice so far guys. One other question I have. I have really injured the spine of my henkles that wouldn't take an even bevel, so being paranoid and this one having a worked spine, I taped it. I have an even bevel on it that passed the thumbpad, thumbnail, and would shave armhairs, but it is very narrow. Can this be part of my problem in finishing? Or should it be the ok since I keep it taped every time it is on the stones to stay consistent?

Thanks Denny! I was afraid it may be too small to make out.

I don't find a shave comfortable after a 16K shapton without crOx.
So a 10-12K stone is unlikely to get you there.

Yeah, 8k JIS stones are markedly finer than the Norton 8k, and will allow me to get further into a shave without struggling.
The Jyunpaku and Fuji 8k stones are exceptions, and both compare to finer stones and will get me even further along. Actually - the Fuji, following the Falcon, will get me so close to 'right there' that a 12k probably wouldn't add anything to the equation.
But, a SS 8k still doesn't get me 'there', only closer than the Norton.
I used to follow the Norton 8k with the SS 8k back when I was starting to see the light and I didnt have a full set of hones.
Buying a 5k SS made the Norton obsolete for me.

At any rate - all I'm trying to convey is that I'll never tell anyone they'll get a good shave off an 8k.
It really depends on a good bit more than 'k' to me actually. I can shave off 5k SS or Norton 8k but I won't think it's a good shave. I can shave off an 8k SS, and it'll l be better, but I still won't think it's a good shave.
Thats just my take on it. When I was new, I thought I wasn't ever going to see a good shave because everyone kept saying 8k was good enough. Took me a while to see, what is good for someone else might not be good for me.

Ok, update. I went back to the 8k superstone, followed by a lot of stropping. Much smoother on the first pass. Took 2 days growth down with no effort or tugging. The AXG gave a little bit of tugging on my face, and was a bit uncomfortable on my neck. Upper lip is still a no go, but it grows like wire there for some reason and even a new feather in my DE tugs.

I think after x-mas, I am going to invest in some lapping film for further finishing. Right now, after paying for gifts and an unexpected vehicle repair, I don't have the funds for a new stone, but since I know it's not completely operator error, I really want to finish these to a good shaving point, and currently that looks like my most affordable option.

Thanks to everyone again for the tips and encouragement!

Have you used the blades directly from a honemeister so that you can rule out anything from your shaving? Not wanting to be rude, but it could be honed well enough but you would have issues regardless.

sfeile said:

I think after x-mas, I am going to invest in some lapping film for further finishing.

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You will only need 1um lapping film to follow the 8k superstone.