Im not arguing the point at all. Film for new shavers is inexpensive and easy. There is alot more out there though, if they want to pursue further. I think a first time honer and a jnat is a mistake, unless he has a mentor to guide him. I personally feel stones to be more versatile, but thats me, Anybody can certainly use film to hone with.
does lapping film work good?
- Thread starter Dadygoble
- Start date
But again, thinking 'big picture' here, lapping film does work to produce a shaving edge on a razor. I think everyone can agree with that statement.
At some point we all end up arguing about which steak is the best cut when along comes a starving person and asks if he / she can eat beef to sustain his / her life. Of course the 'big picture' answer is yep, it is all from the same cow, and the similarities are far greater than the differences, as far as nutrition (and the ability to clog arteries) goes. Which one a given person prefers on his / her own dinner plate is very much a fine detail that need not be of great concern for the nourishment phase of the discussion.
By the way, NY strip is THE best steak for grilling, tenderloin otherwise. I just wanted to get a jump on that argument....
Brian
Best for grilling? No, no, no. Skirt steak.
You and I have very different standards for knowledgeable.
Talk a lot, shout down and/or silence people who disagree with you within your own realm of influence, and try your damnedest to extract profit from what the people who disagree with you generally view as a hobby they engage in out of personal interest in it rather than financial interest; these things don't spell knowledgeable to me. I admit I've not given film the fair shake it deserves, and I plan to use it in the future, but as I said, enough people whom I trust know what they're doing have compared it to other synthetic options in results; and if that is indeed the case, it's not something I'm chomping at the bit to bother with. I'll get to it eventually. From others opinions, I'm more eager to try the Gokumyo 20k, which I haven't tried because of the cost, but is also in the group of things I'm sure I'll eventually get to. I figure I'll get to it around the time I remember how to spell it without looking it up.
And Seraphim, while Jnat's are considered by many to be the ultimate example of a razor edge, I'd suggest you give a soft, labeled thuringian a try. It gets you most of the way there while being, in my experience, as consistent and mindless to use as a good quality synthetic. The risk in Thuri's is the abundance of fakes and misidentified stones out there. If you have a real one, they're extremely easy to use and give incredible edges. Not to dissuade you from trying a Jnat, but Jnat is a much broader grouping of stones, many of which are not suitable for our purposes, and many of those which are require a good amount of experience with them to use properly. They're not the best selection for someone wanting a quick option to compare the potential of natural stones against synthetics. You may get lucky and get one that is suitable and very easy to use. Possibly with the correct vendor selecting for you, this can be all but guaranteed. Still, if I were recommending a finishing stone for a friend who wasn't familiar with natural stone honing, I'd never recommend a Jnat unless I had personally used it and found it to be exceptionally straight-forward in use. I'd recommend a thuri without a moments hesitation.
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Well, I am glad to see this thread took a turn for the kinder, gentler way of interacting.
I believe this quote fits best:
I believe this quote fits best:
“You cannot reason people out of a position that they did not reason themselves into.”
-Ben Goldacre, author of Bad Science (fitting, huh?)
So, if a JNat isn't a first choice for a first timer, why is so much effort going into this thread trying to convince the first time OP honer that it is?
Has anyone recommended a Jnat? I missed that. The only reason a Jnat even got brought up is because it's the only case I'm aware of where film edges were compared to naturals. It was brought up to dispute the claim that natural stones are given a mystique or assumed sense of quality or worth from their cost; nothing else. I can't say for certain, but except possibly in cases where someone specifically indicated desire to try Jnats, I don't believe I've ever recommended a razor honer start on Jnats (again, maybe at some point I've spitballed that taking the effort to learn one from the get-go may be slightly more efficient than starting elsewhere if the honer expected to wind up there anyway; I can't say with certainty). It strikes me that the majority of people recommending naturals to beginners recommend coticules; which though not as consistently easy as synthetics are generally quite easy to use as a finishing stone; and as such not necessarily a bad recommendation. Though even here, only a few people seem to have recommended a natural at all, we simply answered the original question more completely than "yes" or "no" by explaining that while film certainly can work for a beginner, many find that they prefer other alternatives, and as such it may be unwise to settle on using film indefinitely and not explore the other options available.
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I'll accept that as an ersatz capitulation.
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That's exactly what it is. If someone wants to learn to hone using film, more power to them. I only suggest that once comfortable, they try other options, particular with regard to finishers, so as not to limit themselves.
Awwwww, cuter than a puppy on Christmas morning. We're gonna' need a group hug emoticon. 
Brian
Brian
I don't take any offense to it. I think it was a pretty accurate observation. I was arguing some ancillary statement to the point at hand without meaning to say that there was anything inherently wrong with using film. So if an argument against using film was the impression I was giving then it needed correcting. I would no more say someone shouldn't use film than someone shouldn't use Naniwa or Shapton or Sigma or any other synthetic hone. They are invaluable tools for our hobby. I only think that people considering any of them, or any natural for that matter, should go into their decision with as much knowledge as possible. If someone asks if a coticule works, then I wouldn't begrudge Jeremy for pointing out that he finds them lacking next to his Jnat edge. If someone asks if a Barbers delight works, I'd expect people to point out that they may, but probably aren't worth $500-$1000. Simply presenting information that isn't necessarily positive doesn't need to be seen as a condemnation of something. That's the purpose to which I expounded on the distinctions between synthetic and natural edges.
Yeah, I was just busting chops.
I should have put the smiley for clarity.��
I should have put the smiley for clarity.��
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