SOS! Problem area CAN'T be managed.

So I am at rope's end here, and figured I'd pay a visit to the clinic incase there was someone out there who could help. I have coarse, dense facial hair and sensitive skin and I have been wet shaving since I was 22, I'm 27 now. I mention this so you know I didn't pick up my first DE yesterday. I certainly don't have one of the most impressive shaving pedigrees around but I'd like to think the inordinate amount of time I've spent on here, and reading on other shaving boards, separates me from the neophytes by some small degree. There have been a few stretches of time during the last 5 years that a beard festooned my face but I have my fair share of experience with attempting to maintain a freshly shorn look too.

Getting down to brass tacks then. The area right below my bottom lip (that can be "bullfrogged" out) starting where the soul patch grows and down to the jawline presents as a major problem area for me. Everywhere else is completely fine though. I can make WTG, XTG and even ATG passes on other areas of my face but even a few delicate WTG passes on my chin and I'm in for a bad time. Here's the kicker though. The day of, and the day after, my face looks excellent. No nicks, cuts, weepers, or irritation of any sort. It isn't until the hair begins to grow again that my chin erupts with these tiny inflamed, white puss filled dots.

I have been supremely focused on prep and technique, and have spent hundreds on various soaps, creams, pre-shave oils, post-shave balms, bump treatments, blade sample packs and highly vaunted razors, all to NO AVAIL. I have shaved in the shower after letting hot water completely penetrate the area for 15-20 minutes, and I have shaved both before and after a shower as well. The timing doesn't seem to really matter. The outcome persists. I manage to get a nice, clean, irritation free shave which lasts about a day or two and then... BAM, the area right below my mouth is under siege the moment the hair begins regrowing. It doesn't matter if I'm using a Feather in my Vintage Gillette Super Speed, an electric razor (both foil and/or rotary), or a multi-blade cartridge razor. This area doesn't seem to discriminate... it will react predictably irrespective of the tools and lubrication used.

Here is my routine currently. I try to keep it clean and simple.

1. Shower in hot water. Delicately wash face and allow the hot water and steam to soften the beard as much as possible. Most times I use an antibacterial face wash (or an Aveeno calming face wash) to ensure all surfaces about to be shaved don't have any residual bacteria.
2. Apply pre-shave oil and thoroughly massage into beard. Wait about 5 minutes prior to commencing shave.
3. Apply TOBS Sandalwood shaving cream and let it sit on my entire face for a couple of minutes to ensure it has softened the whiskers as much as possible.
4. Using as little pressure as needed, delicately make WTG reduction passes on my entire mug.
5. Re-apply pre-shave oil and re-apply shaving creame to make any cleanup passes for anything that may have been missed.
6. Spritz some Thayer's Rose-petal Witch Hazel over my entire face and let it dry.

I pay close attention to growth patterns, angle, and pressure. I use quality blades, soaps, oils, and am patient in my preparations. At this point, the complete lack of irritation after my shaves would suggest that this is not the result of my technique, but an invariable consequence of the beard hairs emerging from beneath the epidermis. Bump patrol, tend skin, aspirin concoctions, and post-shave products designed for sensitive skin don't seem to do anything to prevent these tiny white pustules from forming at the follicles 48 hours later.

What can I do? How many other people here have just resigned themselves to the notion that shaving just isn't for them? Yet again, I have plopped down more money for a new razor (Merkur Slant Bar 37C) and some new shave cream (Creamo Cream). I feel I have exhausted every tip and good idea I've come across, but I am hoping there is some erudite shaver here who can step in with a novel solution and help me solve this!

This is just a thought, okay? You are obviously very careful in your routine so I'm not even saying it will work.
Try skipping the pre-shave oil and see what happens. I've never used it and I've been shaving for a long time without problems like you are describing.

Hi Mike -

I will eliminate the pre-shave oil on my next shave and see how I fair. For what it's worth though, I introduced it into my ritual because of the aforementioned issue. I thought any additional lubricity was bound to help.

Incidentally, the Merkur Slant 37C and Creamo Cream haven't arrived yet so I haven't used them. I will use those 2 items alone and see what happens.

I'm guessing the oil might be clogging pores and prevent them from "breathing" but I could be wrong; It's worth a try. For what it's worth, I get plenty of lubrication from Tabac and others and they rinse clean. Pre-shave oil might not. See the thread "Pre-shave oil?' in this forum.

Not all that experienced but I would join the others in dropping the pre-shave oil. If you really feel like you need something under the cream to soften the beard, you could try a Proraso pre-shave, just massage into wet, prepped skin and then lather on top.

Beyond that, perhaps adding an alum block, for the antiseptic properties, post-shave? Ultimately, it sounds like something is clogging your pores, perhaps oil, perhaps something else. Do you get ingrown hairs? Does the skin on your chin look or feel different to the skin on the rest of your face?

Well that sounds like no fun.
Have you talked to a dermatologist?
Good luck.

I agree with the dermatologist recommendation.

Agree with suggestions to skip the pre shave oil for a while. Another preshave alternative is to face lather then rinse lightly, with a clear glycerin soap or even your shave soap.

Did you have chin problems with your cartridges previously?

Just to throw an observation of mine out there, I get some of my best shaves when I'm in a hurry and just do a minimalist shave right out of the shower.

It struck me that you are doing an extraordinary amount of prep before you shave and them putting a lot of pre-shave oil on your skin as you shave. As others have said, you may benefit from dialing back the repeated applications of pre-shave oil.

Having had a similar experience with razor bumps, let me add to the conversation. The white filled dots are a sign of skin inflammation. In that particular part of your skin, your skin is traumatized and probably more sensitive to shaving, no matter how well you prep that area. What I arrived at was to first use witch hazel after shaving and then later switched over to a simple salicylic acid applied to my face before I went to bed.

Salicylic acid can be bought at a drug store in the acne product area. It is one of the active ingredient of aspirin (which incidentally an old school remedy for razor bumps and ingrown hairs was to crush an aspirin and rub a wet aspirin paste on the affected area. Regardless of what solution you arrive at, you also need to minimize shaving in the affected area as the troubled area heals. Instead of going for the BBS shave in that area, shoot for a one-pass, SAS and stop there.

If you situation is like mine, you should see good results in a week or two and then adjust back to your normal routine watching the troubled area.

Hang in there, as frustrating as it is, this is a treatable situation.

I'm a head shaver and have similar problems on the back of my neck. I would second the recommendation to see a derm, just make sure you do it when the condition is obvious. My condition turned out to not be ingrowns or acne. It's folliculitis, which is more common for those of us with coarse hair because we tend to have huge, open follicles. An antibiotic is the only thing that will clear it up.

I would also suggest skipping the pre-shave oil. It's great for keeping your skin moisturized, but can clog pores. If you want to use it, then do it at night and rinse away as much as you can after rubbing it in for a minute. As far as pre shave, I really like plain old Noxzema in the tub. The Witch Hazel might also be aggravating things, even if it is alcohol free.

I'm just starting to experiment now, but what I've found feels and works the best for me is a single WTG pass with a razor that has A LOT of blade exposure and a really smooth/sharp blade. I recently had the best shave I can remember and my skin felt great using a Fatboy dialed up to 9 with an Astra SP blade.

You already have some excellent advice here. I will just underline that the problems seem to start around 48 hours after a shave. Right?

What about doing something in between the shave and 48 hours later? Maybe at the 24 hour mark it would help to face-lather, or use a gentle exfoliating scrub. Or just wash. My guess is you have trapped hairs, verging on a type of ingrown. So find the right approach to free them up. Timing may be important too: I suggested 24 hours after your shave, but see if you notice any itching earlier than that.

I agree with skip the shave oil. I just started using a oil and it seem like my jaw bone gets tore up. I don't use it and seems to be better. Now this might sound stupid. And I"m not sure if others here have tried it. But I take about 4 Aspirin and let it dissolve in hot water. Then use a brush to brush that hot dissolved Aspirin and water on my face. Let it sit for a few then wipe the little bits of Aspirin off and it seems to work. I don't know I might be wrong and its in my head. Might give it a try.

mblakele said:

You already have some excellent advice here. I will just underline that the problems seem to start around 48 hours after a shave. Right?

What about doing something in between the shave and 48 hours later? Maybe at the 24 hour mark it would help to face-lather, or use a gentle exfoliating scrub. Or just wash. My guess is you have trapped hairs, verging on a type of ingrown. So find the right approach to free them up. Timing may be important too: I suggested 24 hours after your shave, but see if you notice any itching earlier than that.

Click to expand...

+1 on the daily exfoliating scrub. This might help remove dead skin, and help the hairs grow through without the irritating white heads. You want a gentle one approved for daily use versus a deep scrub that you use once or twice week. You might consider something like Pacific Pre-Shave Wash or Aveeno Daily Exfoliating Cleanser, which you can likely find in Walmart.

If that doesn't help, seeing a doc is the way to go sounds like.

mswofford said:

I'm guessing the oil might be clogging pores and prevent them from "breathing" but I could be wrong; It's worth a try. For what it's worth, I get plenty of lubrication from Tabac and others and they rinse clean. Pre-shave oil might not. See the thread "Pre-shave oil?' in this forum.

Click to expand...

This is an interesting theory and one that I will explore a bit. Due to the coarseness of my beard, I need as much emollient on my face as possible to reduce drag. I am thinking the Creamo Cream will be good for this, from what I've heard. I will nix the oil from my next few shaves and we'll see.

Oxwilson said:

Not all that experienced but I would join the others in dropping the pre-shave oil. If you really feel like you need something under the cream to soften the beard, you could try a Proraso pre-shave, just massage into wet, prepped skin and then lather on top.

Beyond that, perhaps adding an alum block, for the antiseptic properties, post-shave? Ultimately, it sounds like something is clogging your pores, perhaps oil, perhaps something else. Do you get ingrown hairs? Does the skin on your chin look or feel different to the skin on the rest of your face?

Click to expand...

I've tried the Alum block in the past with no added benefit. In fact, it just stung and caused my face to turn red. I get much better shaves without it. The little whiteheads I mentioned above are not ingrown hairs, although they occur primarily at the follicles. I've never really had an issue with ingrown hairs on my face or neck before so no, that's not what these are. The skin on my chin does look a bit different but there's nothing abnormal going on. I think I am just able to see the hair follicles in that location better when I bullfrog it out and the skin expands.

Inigo Montoya said:

Well that sounds like no fun.
Have you talked to a dermatologist?
Good luck.

Click to expand...

No, because I have great skin and keep up with a good skin care routine. I had acne when I was a teen but those issues have long since abated. This is a direct result of shaving and does not appear to be a "condition".

redrako said:

Just to throw an observation of mine out there, I get some of my best shaves when I'm in a hurry and just do a minimalist shave right out of the shower.

It struck me that you are doing an extraordinary amount of prep before you shave and them putting a lot of pre-shave oil on your skin as you shave. As others have said, you may benefit from dialing back the repeated applications of pre-shave oil.

Having had a similar experience with razor bumps, let me add to the conversation. The white filled dots are a sign of skin inflammation. In that particular part of your skin, your skin is traumatized and probably more sensitive to shaving, no matter how well you prep that area. What I arrived at was to first use witch hazel after shaving and then later switched over to a simple salicylic acid applied to my face before I went to bed.

Salicylic acid can be bought at a drug store in the acne product area. It is one of the active ingredient of aspirin (which incidentally an old school remedy for razor bumps and ingrown hairs was to crush an aspirin and rub a wet aspirin paste on the affected area. Regardless of what solution you arrive at, you also need to minimize shaving in the affected area as the troubled area heals. Instead of going for the BBS shave in that area, shoot for a one-pass, SAS and stop there.

If you situation is like mine, you should see good results in a week or two and then adjust back to your normal routine watching the troubled area.

Hang in there, as frustrating as it is, this is a treatable situation.

Click to expand...

Good advice Bob, thanks! I picked up Neutrogena Rapid Clear which is 2% salicylic acid. I put it into a small spray bottle and will spritz my face with it at the end of my shave.

gwsmallwood said:

I'm a head shaver and have similar problems on the back of my neck. I would second the recommendation to see a derm, just make sure you do it when the condition is obvious. My condition turned out to not be ingrowns or acne. It's folliculitis, which is more common for those of us with coarse hair because we tend to have huge, open follicles. An antibiotic is the only thing that will clear it up.

I would also suggest skipping the pre-shave oil. It's great for keeping your skin moisturized, but can clog pores. If you want to use it, then do it at night and rinse away as much as you can after rubbing it in for a minute. As far as pre shave, I really like plain old Noxzema in the tub. The Witch Hazel might also be aggravating things, even if it is alcohol free.

I'm just starting to experiment now, but what I've found feels and works the best for me is a single WTG pass with a razor that has A LOT of blade exposure and a really smooth/sharp blade. I recently had the best shave I can remember and my skin felt great using a Fatboy dialed up to 9 with an Astra SP blade.

Click to expand...

I am planning on ditching the pre-shave oil, at least for the next couple of shaves, and have ordered a Merkur Slant which from my understanding DOES expose more of the blade. I would like to repeat though that I am not convinced the preshave oil is the culprit here. This was happening before I introduced it into my routine and it was brought in reduce trauma to that area by making it easier to mow down.

mblakele said:

You already have some excellent advice here. I will just underline that the problems seem to start around 48 hours after a shave. Right?

What about doing something in between the shave and 48 hours later? Maybe at the 24 hour mark it would help to face-lather, or use a gentle exfoliating scrub. Or just wash. My guess is you have trapped hairs, verging on a type of ingrown. So find the right approach to free them up. Timing may be important too: I suggested 24 hours after your shave, but see if you notice any itching earlier than that.

Click to expand...

This is a really good suggestion. I'll see what happens.

spaz815 said:

I agree with skip the shave oil. I just started using a oil and it seem like my jaw bone gets tore up. I don't use it and seems to be better. Now this might sound stupid. And I"m not sure if others here have tried it. But I take about 4 Aspirin and let it dissolve in hot water. Then use a brush to brush that hot dissolved Aspirin and water on my face. Let it sit for a few then wipe the little bits of Aspirin off and it seems to work. I don't know I might be wrong and its in my head. Might give it a try.

Click to expand...

Thanks. As noted in the OP, I have tired the aspirin mixture without much success. I actually had better luck with Bump Patrol, however, I recently picked up Neutrogena Rapid Clear which contains 2% Salicylic Acid which I'll be applying directly after the shave.

kansaskyle said:

+1 on the daily exfoliating scrub. This might help remove dead skin, and help the hairs grow through without the irritating white heads. You want a gentle one approved for daily use versus a deep scrub that you use once or twice week. You might consider something like Pacific Pre-Shave Wash or Aveeno Daily Exfoliating Cleanser, which you can likely find in Walmart.

If that doesn't help, seeing a doc is the way to go sounds like.

Click to expand...

I picked this up the other day: Aveeno Active Naturals Ultra Calming Foaming Cleanser and will report back after I've used it after a couple of shaves.

Thanks for the input everyone. If anybody else has any ideas that maybe haven't been touched on yet, please feel free to add them.

stoavio said:

Good advice Bob, thanks! I picked up Neutrogena Rapid Clear which is 2% salicylic acid. I put it into a small spray bottle and will spritz my face with it at the end of my shave.

I am planning on ditching the pre-shave oil, at least for the next couple of shaves, and have ordered a Merkur Slant which from my understanding DOES expose more of the blade. I would like to repeat though that I am not convinced the preshave oil is the culprit here. This was happening before I introduced it into my routine and it was brought in reduce trauma to that area by making it easier to mow down.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a good plan of attack. As far as the salicylic acid, I have found it counterproductive (same with alcohol and witch hazel). My struggle is with folliculitis, and the SA drys out my skin too much, causing overproduction of oil, which clogs the follicles and makes the problem worse.

The slant doesn't have any more or less blade exposure than most straight bar razors. It's more efficient due to the torqued blade and the slicing action, but it isn't any more aggressive. IMHO, people that tend to cut themselves with the slants either have technique problems (too much pressure, improper angles) or blade alignment issues. It's not due to any increase in aggression. My first upgrade was a 37c. It made for a better shave with my coarse beard, but didn't help my bump issues.

You don't need shave oil to get the needed slickness. You do need slick lather.

If this is just your chin, maybe you're having angle problems and scraping a bit?

I had (and still have) the same problem as you with a group of ~10 hair follicles near the soul patch after I started wet shaving. Before that, it was all over my face.
What worked for me was:
1. I stopped stretching the skin completely when I did a pass over the problematic area.
2. I forgot about the ATG and do 3 very light passes over that area: one WTG and two XTGs in opposite directions.
3. I started using alum.
Also, it wouldn't hurt to keep it as simple (and without as many products) as possible.
The result in that area is almost identical to the rest of my face. The hairs on my face grow rather quickly and by the end of the day I there is no notable difference.
And of course, as the other gentlemen before me have said, visit a dermatologist since the problem persists. It doesn't matter how much any of us in here know about the skin, I'm willing to bet that the average dermatologist knows much more. It always helps to know what you're dealing with.
Good luck and happy shaves!

Another thought - try a cold water shave.

BTW, coming up with spots after a shave is not normal, and could well be a condition. I'd also recommend a dermatologist.

stoavio said:

I have coarse, dense facial hair and sensitive skin

It isn't until the hair begins to grow again that my chin erupts with these tiny inflamed, white puss filled dots.

BAM, the area right below my mouth is under siege the moment the hair begins regrowing.

Click to expand...

I think you've got your answers here. I've had these every once in awhile in the corners of the mustache area if I go ATG or apply too much pressure. As you've described, you are doing neither of these things yet you are still getting the same result. It's probably just the hairs growing into the skin a bit.

As a side note, all the time letting spent letting products sit on your face seems a bit much. Try just showering, jumping out, facelathering right away, and then straight to shaving with additional water splashed on between passes. I'd be interested to hear the result after a couple days. Additionally, try this with a soap, not a cream. I've only ever gotten the bumps from non slick cream based lather.

First of all welcome. It sounds like you have sensitive/combination skin and it is really difficult to deal with (my wife has dealt with similar issues her whole life, but luckily she doesn't shave her face). If I was in your position, I would change two things and I will explain why below.

1) I wouldn't use the anti-bacterial cleaner as those types of cleansers may remove too much of your good flora and fauna which can result in not being able to ward off other bacteria (too much of a good thing can be too much of a good thing). I looked up the Aveeno and that seems to be a good choice.

2) I would transition to cool or cold water to prep your face as it will cause that hair to stand up a bit more and you may get a cleaner cut.

3) Ok, I said two, but just do a one-pass shave in that area until everything has a chance to heal fully. It is not the best as in it won't be perfect, but with even two passes you will keep irritating that problem area. It will still be office acceptable.

These are just suggestions and good luck.