Honing assistance

I am very new to straight razors and the associated honing. I've been shaving with my first straight, a vintage German razor that I restored for the past week or so and I've never gotten a truly great shave with it especially ATG. I originally worked out the nicks with a 600 DMT then a fine Arkansas stone and then I transitioned to a fairly narrow (1.5") black translucent Arkansas stone. Finished off with white rouge on a paddle strop. I've Used those stones and strops for years to sharpen my carving and pocket knives so when I got into wet shaving recently I assumed that these would hone a straight perfectly. Did I assume wrong? I thought I had honed it quite well but it still tugs a bit even with the grain on the chin and upper lip where the hair is thickest, worse ATG. Did I transition too drastically between grits? I spent about 15 minutes give or take on each stone so that should have been enough.

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

There are many possibilities and opinions to be had...

The thing with straights compared to a knife is that you want the least "toothy" edge as possible. That toothed edge on a knife that assists in catching on paper and rope to slice through it doesn't help much with cutting hair shafts without pulling. Everyone's theories differ, but when I hone I aim to reduce the scratch pattern on the edge as much as possible.

So when you set your bevel on a 600 DMT, you are introducing quite a few deep scratched in the edge. It is possible those scratches are still present after your black Arkie.

Another possibility is your bevel is not fully set after the 600. The edge should catch and cut coarse hair easily. I usually check my bevels on my leg hair. If it cuts with minimal or no pressure then I know the bevel is ready for finishing.

I think you should be able to get a serviceable edge with your set up, but if anything a finer that 600 but coarser than your Fine Arkie might speed things up a bit.

I was in exactly your spot when I started honing straight razors. Many many years of experience honing knives with great success on Arkansas stones. Razors are enough of a different animal that it takes a while to learn. It sounds like your mid level honing and then the final finish needs tweaked. I find that razors need all steps completed just a little longer than knives. I think the jump from fine ark to black may be a bit big unless you are willing to put a lot of laps in on the black. Then right at the finish if you are going to use pastes go to the green crox paste. Then past that your edge isn't finished until it is well stropped on a good bare leather strop. You will gain that last little bit of sharpness on unpasted leather. Finally I would look up HHT (hanging hair test) and read everything Doc 226 has put out on the subject. With time and practice it is a handy way to test your edges before going to the shave. Not the only way, but a very handy way once you learn it. Many of us, myself included do not use pastes at all, but they absolutely can work. You should with time be able to go from finishing stone (in your case a black ark) to linen to leather to shave. Good luck and keep honing.

I do use a plain top grain strop after the pasted strop (still learning technique) What would you recommend as a stone or stones as an intermediate between the fine Arkie and the black Arkie? Keep in mind that my budget is very small being a college student.

Gator said:

I do use a plain top grain strop after the pasted strop (still learning technique) What would you recommend as a stone or stones as an intermediate between the fine Arkie and the black Arkie? Keep in mind that my budget is very small being a college student.

Click to expand...

There are Chinese stones that run about 4K, and the Welsh Dragon's Tongue runs at about 8K. Those are both relatively inexpensive.

http://www.taylors1000.com/direct_sales/sharpening/dragons_tongue_hone/welsh_hone_page.htm

http://www.ebay.com/usr/aj_1001?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2754

http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_n...hetstone+Polishing+Barber+Straight+Open+Razor

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baber-Water...707?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6908b9d3

I know a couple of professional honers who go from at 1k (Chosera) to a Dragon's Tongue with Slurry, then water, and then straight to a finishing hone. I've done that, but now I usually go from the 1k to the Chinese 4k, then a Dragon's Tongue.

The Chinese 4k will need some fairly heavy lapping to smooth it out. I use a DMT 325 for that, but I imagine you could do it with a 600, just takes longer.

So I did some asking around the house (what I should have done in the first place) and my dad found a Norton 1K and 8K combo wet stone that he used for sharpening his chisels. I spent a couple of hours lapping them on my DMT 600 and got them nice and flat, that DMT 325 was sounding mighty nice about then. anyways I spent quite a while on 1K and then transitioned to the 8K for finish and then went straight to the strop with compound then strop without compound. I haven't shaved with it yet but it passes the HHT to the best that I can tell. I probably need to go back and finish it on the translucent Arkansas stone then strop it instead of using the 8K as a finishing stone which I'm assuming it is not.

I ordered a whipped dog straight razor to compare sharpness to since I am fairly green at honing a straight. For the cost of sending my razor out for honing I can just buy a sight unseen flawed from Larry and get a second razor to use as a sharpness standard.

Thanks a lot for the links I will definitely use them for when I upgrade or expand my hones.

I'm sure that there are those who will be tired of hearing my testimony but....I use a yellow coticule to hone on, a clean linen and clean leather hanging strop. That's all you need. And, my beard is made of wire. While reading all the talk about this stone and that one all I could think of was that is an awful lot of distractions to get to where you want to be. Focus Grasshopper. Get yourself a nice 10 or 20X magnifying glass to see what you are doing. Once your edges come off the rock popping hair you'll be ready for the hanging strop. According to the width of your blade you'll need some slack in your strop, the wider the more the slack but, don't over do it. Rub the leather with the palm of your hand and really get some heat going. Hold the strop where you can strop away from you, roll the blade over the spine and strop back to you. Learn to use an "X" pattern even though you may have a two and a half inch, three inch or what ever you can get these days but the cross pattern properly executed really makes a fine shaving edge. Your stropping is the thing that will make your shave excellent, not so much the rock. So, get really good at stropping. Toss all those messy pastes in a drawer for tools. Keep it clean and enjoy. Stop beating yourself to death and get down to basics. They really do work wonders.

I hope this helps.

Regards

Chasmo

The jump from 1k to 8k is quite large. It can be done but it will take some time. Most of us have something in the 3 to 5k range between the 1k and 8k.