Need mountaineering advice!

Ok, so here is my goal: over the next 10 years I'd like to accomplish the following:

Climb Mt. Rainer
Climb Mt. McKinley
Climb Cho Oyu (one of the easier 8000m peaks)



From what I hear, Rainer is not that hard, but there is a pretty big skill jump between Rainer to McKinley. McKinley is pretty dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.

I live near the Catskills, and I'm wondering if anyone knows some good mountains to practice on? In terms of my skill level, I'm in terrific athletic shape (can run a mile in around 5:30), and I've been on full-day mountain hikes - but nothing that requires setting up camp, technical climbing, or extreme exposure to ice and cold.

Any advice would be appreciated gents!

Mount Washington comes to mind.

take a mountaineering course in colorado.i dont have one to suggest but they would prepare you for the bigger stuff.

Sherpa.

you could practice setting up camp, technical climbing, and
extreme exposure to ice and cold.

eastomjac said:

take a mountaineering course in colorado.i dont have one to suggest but they would prepare you for the bigger stuff.

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Back in the 70's, the Outwardbound school in CO. was a good place to start. Probably many other options today. Definitely get some professional mountaineering/climbing instruction for high altitude forays.

ncsuactor84BNB said:

Ok, so here is my goal: over the next 10 years I'd like to accomplish the following:

Climb Mt. Rainer
Climb Mt. McKinley
Climb Cho Oyu (one of the easier 8000m peaks)



From what I hear, Rainer is not that hard, but there is a pretty big skill jump between Rainer to McKinley. McKinley is pretty dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.

I live near the Catskills, and I'm wondering if anyone knows some good mountains to practice on? In terms of my skill level, I'm in terrific athletic shape (can run a mile in around 5:30), and I've been on full-day mountain hikes - but nothing that requires setting up camp, technical climbing, or extreme exposure to ice and cold.

Any advice would be appreciated gents!

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You have all the practice ground you need around you. Get up with the local ADK winter hiking group. Find some folks who know what they're doing above treeline in the snow.

ADK club

Are you a member of Summitpost? If not you need to sign up because you'll gather much more info there than here. McKinley IS DANGEROUS. Check out the climbing facts: http://climbing.about.com/od/thesevensummits/a/Denali-Highest-Mountain-In-North-America.htm Over 20,000 ft of prominence!!!!! Have you been to Colorado and climbed any of the 14ers? Check out 13ers.com and 14ers.com Don't dismiss winter climbs of 14ers if your goal is to eventually climb McKinley. Also, in your neck of the woods, I'm certain there are winter mountaineering courses offered on Mt Washington. Also, don't be lulled into thinking your fitness has anything to do with enduring the effects of high altitude. Unless you've lived in elevations over 8,000 ft and are accustomed to it, HAPE AND HACE and general altitude sickness can affect anyone no matter the fitness level. Problem is, you won't know until you start spending some time at those altitudes. 12,000 ft is a great equalizer. Once you hit that level, everyone's pace up the mountain is pretty much the same, unless you're a sherpa!

Have fun!

"Getting to the top is optional, getting down is mandatory" (Ed Viesturs)

Challenge on these mountains is elevation and weather. You have the conditioning part in good shape. I agree with the above suggestion to attend a mouintaineering camp in Colorado where you can do a lot of work above 8-9,000'. That's a lot different then the Catskills.

Also, I would spring for a guide service on all these mountains. When attempting climbs like this, there is no substitute for local knowledge, particularly of weather.

If you do this, check your ego at the base of the mountain. If you get to a point where going on is extremely dicey, you have to have enough guts and common sense to turn back rather then carry on. Going on in cases like this can be fatal.

Good luck.

If you were in the UK my advice would be to join a local climbing/mountaineering club and gain experience that way. This allows you to pair up with like mined climbers, get help from more accomplished ones and possibly borrow technical gear, which isn't cheap. I'd do a bit of research and see if there's a club of this sort near you.

I agree with BSAGuy about the temperatures being your biggest hurdle. Have you ever tried to bivouac out at -30? It's an extremely deadly environment -- a narrow line, with relative comfort on one side and possible death on the other. You should try this under controlled conditions before you venture out -- preferably near shelter and warmth so that if things go wrong you have a means of retreat.

It's a challenge that I used to relish when I was younger.

Since then I've grown older and wiser -- well at least older.

I'd at least start with doing some longer backpacking trips in your area.

ncsuactor84BNB said:

Ok, so here is my goal: over the next 10 years I'd like to accomplish the following:

Climb Mt. Rainer
Climb Mt. McKinley
Climb Cho Oyu (one of the easier 8000m peaks)



From what I hear, Rainer is not that hard, but there is a pretty big skill jump between Rainer to McKinley. McKinley is pretty dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.

I live near the Catskills, and I'm wondering if anyone knows some good mountains to practice on? In terms of my skill level, I'm in terrific athletic shape (can run a mile in around 5:30), and I've been on full-day mountain hikes - but nothing that requires setting up camp, technical climbing, or extreme exposure to ice and cold.

Any advice would be appreciated gents!

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I have been climbing and mountaineering since 1985.

First, in your location you can easily locate and contact a number of clubs around your area that can provide you with the kind of winter mountaineering training you will definitely need. The Presidentials are a fantastic place for it. If you can't tie a double figure eight in the dark at -25F while balanced on a 60 degree incline, you definitely want to find that out while only a couple hundred miles from home surrounded by people that can help you instead of at 13,000ft and alone.

Second, buy "Mountaineering: The Freedom of the Hills." Memorize every page. Literally. It is the bible of mountaineering and there is information on almost every page that could save your life on a mountain.

Third, I would definitely suggest adding some high altitude rock training to the mix - the Tetons or the Wind River range would ideal in the lower 48 - the skills are absolutely invaluable.

Fourth, there is a HUGE gap between Ranier and McKinley in terms of skill level, weather potential, climb duration, and acclimatization. Until you know how your body reacts to altitude, making the leap from 14er's to 21,000ft can be a very dangerous pandoras box of problems. You do not want to find out your first time at 17,000ft that you vomit uncontrollably and can't see clearly and realize you have a 1.5 mile stumble back to the camp at 14.2k and safety.

I've always recommended Aconcagua as a "non-technical first step" into big mountains as it offers a series of camps from about 9000ft up to 19,000+ft where you can gauge your body and mind along the way little by little. It may not have the cache of Denali, but it offers a real good altitude 'testing ground' for new climbers and is one of the "Big Seven." The thing with altitude sickness is, YOU don't realize you have it until it's too late. If you need, you can drop down a few thousand feet much easier there than at McKinley.

As for the jump from McKinley to 8000M peaks, well, lets just say that when you have stood on top of Denali, you decide if 8000M is really for you.

One final thought. About five years ago I did an alpine assault on Mt. Baker (which I would put between Ranier and McKinley on your list) with two guys...one who ran ultra marathons and the other who drank a fifth of vodka a day. The two of us who made it to the top took shots of vodka on the summit. Never overestimate, or underestimate someone on a mountain...including yourself.

BZiel said:

I have been climbing and mountaineering since 1985.

First, in your location you can easily locate and contact a number of clubs around your area that can provide you with the kind of winter mountaineering training you will definitely need. The Presidentials are a fantastic place for it. If you can't tie a double figure eight in the dark at -25F while balanced on a 60 degree incline, you definitely want to find that out while only a couple hundred miles from home surrounded by people that can help you instead of at 13,000ft and alone.

Second, buy "Mountaineering: The Freedom of the Hills." Memorize every page. Literally. It is the bible of mountaineering and there is information on almost every page that could save your life on a mountain.

Third, I would definitely suggest adding some high altitude rock training to the mix - the Tetons or the Wind River range would ideal in the lower 48 - the skills are absolutely invaluable.

Fourth, there is a HUGE gap between Ranier and McKinley in terms of skill level, weather potential, climb duration, and acclimatization. Until you know how your body reacts to altitude, making the leap from 14er's to 21,000ft can be a very dangerous pandoras box of problems. You do not want to find out your first time at 17,000ft that you vomit uncontrollably and can't see clearly and realize you have a 1.5 mile stumble back to the camp at 14.2k and safety.

I've always recommended Aconcagua as a "non-technical first step" into big mountains as it offers a series of camps from about 9000ft up to 19,000+ft where you can gauge your body and mind along the way little by little. It may not have the cache of Denali, but it offers a real good altitude 'testing ground' for new climbers and is one of the "Big Seven." The thing with altitude sickness is, YOU don't realize you have it until it's too late. If you need, you can drop down a few thousand feet much easier there than at McKinley.

As for the jump from McKinley to 8000M peaks, well, lets just say that when you have stood on top of Denali, you decide if 8000M is really for you.

One final thought. About five years ago I did an alpine assault on Mt. Baker (which I would put between Ranier and McKinley on your list) with two guys...one who ran ultra marathons and the other who drank a fifth of vodka a day. The two of us who made it to the top took shots of vodka on the summit. Never overestimate, or underestimate someone on a mountain...including yourself.

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Heed the Ziel. He is wise and powerful.

Having climbed Rainier it's not the most technical climbs you'll do but it's a HUGE mountain and weather is unpredictable. I'd recommend finding a good rock climbing group and do some gym climbing to gain some of the rock/harness/etc skills you'll need to be familiar with. Also hire a good guide with a mountaineering course included, that will help solidify a lot of information. Pressure breathing, rest stepping, temperature management are just of the things you'll learn. Good luck, find some smaller mountains to climb first and you'll enjoy the bigger ones much more.

ncsuactor84BNB said:

Ok, so here is my goal: over the next 10 years I'd like to accomplish the following:

Climb Mt. Rainer
Climb Mt. McKinley
Climb Cho Oyu (one of the easier 8000m peaks)



From what I hear, Rainer is not that hard, but there is a pretty big skill jump between Rainer to McKinley. McKinley is pretty dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.

I live near the Catskills, and I'm wondering if anyone knows some good mountains to practice on? In terms of my skill level, I'm in terrific athletic shape (can run a mile in around 5:30), and I've been on full-day mountain hikes - but nothing that requires setting up camp, technical climbing, or extreme exposure to ice and cold.

Any advice would be appreciated gents!

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l0pht said:

Pressure breathing, rest stepping, temperature management are just of the things you'll learn.

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You bring up a great point about temperature management. Absolutely crucial in alpine environments. I have personally seen a climber lose his focus at altitude and suffer a near-hypothermic condition because he didn't peel layers when he should have. He's lucky he was with a team that had the resources to save him from a dirt nap.

A lot of people who have never climbed put together a list like yours, then learn some basics and think their fitness and grasp of those basics will get them up anything. I am an experienced ice climber, rock climber, ski tourer and avalanche technician. I started in my 20s and climbed heavily for about 15yrs. I stopped because I had gone to far too many funerals for friends who died "doing what they loved". These were highly experienced people. Google Jim Haberl or Alex Lowe if you care to. They were 2 of my friends among many who have died. I also have spent an evening drinking beer with Joe Simpson (another fascinating Google read). His career reads like a series of failed suicide attempts.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that you should ditch the list. Tear it up. If you want to experience climbing, take a course, but don't think that qualifies you to plan trips and go off on your own. National alpine clubs (US and Canada) hold camps.You should gain more experience in a setting like that with people who can keep you out of trouble, thus gaining the judgment you will need when you are responsible for your own safety. Your skills and judgment need to be flawless and automatic at all times.

krusty said:

A lot of people who have never climbed put together a list like yours, then learn some basics and think their fitness and grasp of those basics will get them up anything. I am an experienced ice climber, rock climber, ski tourer and avalanche technician. I started in my 20s and climbed heavily for about 15yrs. I stopped because I had gone to far too many funerals for friends who died "doing what they loved". These were highly experienced people. Google Jim Haberl or Alex Lowe if you care to. They were 2 of my friends among many who have died. I also have spent an evening drinking beer with Joe Simpson (another fascinating Google read). His career reads like a series of failed suicide attempts.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that you should ditch the list. Tear it up. If you want to experience climbing, take a course, but don't think that qualifies you to plan trips and go off on your own. National alpine clubs (US and Canada) hold camps.You should gain more experience in a setting like that with people who can keep you out of trouble, thus gaining the judgment you will need when you are responsible for your own safety. Your skills and judgment need to be flawless and automatic at all times.

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Great post. It's scary out there on big mountains in the cold.

Thank you everyone who took time to respond.

I am not a dare-devil or a thrill seeker. There is a reason mountains like K-2 or Annapurna won't ever be on my list. But I like a good challenge. And I love alpine weather. And while I don't actively seek danger, I feel like the danger of a mountain makes me focus in a way that I otherwise wouldn't. I feel like mountaineering is the ultimate test of ones athleticism, will, and wisdom.

I certainly don't take these mountains lightly. That's why I'm doing a lot of homework and research. I want to be well prepared. I'm also not going to do anything stupid, like soloing Rainier or McKinley. I plan on having good experienced climbers with me when I go up.

I don't think I'll ditch the list, but perhaps I'll ditch the timeline. I'll start doing some easier alpine climbs, and when I feel I have enough experience, I'll tackle one on my list with an experienced team. And Aconcagua sounds like an excellent mountain to climb before McKinley.

Here's a trip report about Aconcagua written by a 14ers member. Good write-up. http://14ers.com/php14ers/tripreport.php?trip=15787