Cheap splash & go whetstone for kitchen knives - first timer

I have spent the last 2 days searching and am now completely confused! I am totally new to sharpening, but my girlfriend bought me my first decent(ish) knife and I want to keep it in good shape. I know there are much better, but I am just a home cook so can't justify huge amounts on it (especially, since living with flat mates, it is only a matter of time before one of them damages it). Anyway, she got me an 8 inch Victorinox with rosewood handle. Compared to what I had before, it's amazing. Maybe one day when I am used to the Victorinox and would be able to appreciate the step up, I can add a lovely Japanese one, but for now this is what I have.

So it seems silly to spend more on the stone than the knife...

Are there any options out there for a cheap, but decent (enough) whetstone, preferably splash & go? (And available in the UK!)

I have seem many passionate discussions over the best ones - but I just can't afford that much at the moment. And I know that for the current hardware, an amazing stone would probably be wasted anyway. However, as a home user I like the convenience of splash & go - does this usually come with a price premium?

Thanks for any opinions!

There are all you really need to keep you kitchen knives sharp.

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-piece-2-inch-x-6-inch-diamond-hone-blocks-36799.html

Aside from the problem of a flat mate walking away with your stuff . . . buy quality and use it for life. You will need a steel perhaps before you need a hone. I use a 1000 grit King water stone I picked up several years ago for about $29.

Sandpaper works in a pinch. So does a chunk of concrete finished on the bottom of a ceramic cup.

But king and Norton both make decent starter stones that should last you a lifetime.

If you want two stones that will last you and your grand children forever look up a red brick and a green brick.

I love my green brick. Imagine I would love a red brick but I have other stones in that grit range already

Thanks for the input! You mentioned a steel - do you think this would be sufficient? I'm not entirely clear on the role of each - do I need a steel if I have stones / do I need a stone if I have a steel??

A steels main function is to realign the knifes edge to stand up straight. Check out YouTube for demonstrations for both the use of a steel and methods of whetstone sharpening.

Ok, thanks. So you would typically need both, or would just a stone suffice?

You need both. A steel is used before every use to realign the edge, whereas the stone rebuilds the edge.
Think of the steel has a strop for the straight razor. It's maintenance.

Remember, a good steel is fairly smooth to the touch. A while back people started selling grooved 'steels' which are best avoided.

I would go for a ceramic ultra fine rod or a smooth rod like this one
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fdipahost.html

not sure about cheap stones but the king 1k sounds like a good bet

rearviewmirror said:

You need both. A steel is used before every use to realign the edge, whereas the stone rebuilds the edge.
Think of the steel has a strop for the straight razor. It's maintenance.

Click to expand...

+1

I have a very inexpensive whetstone I bought at an Asian grocery that seems to do fine for sharpening. The Harbor Freight "stones" seem fine to me, too. I use what folks would probably consider a fairly rough steel by Wisthof.

My knives are pretty work a day French, German, and American carbon and stainless steel, though. I have no knowledge of what it takes to maintain a good Japanese knife!

I am actually guessing that having a steel is going to long delay any work you actually need on a stone. I use a steel every time I use a knife, and it is not that often that I actually have to put a knife to a stone.

Thanks everyone! I think I have a better idea now of the sort of level to aim for. The selection isn't quite as good / a bit more expensive in the UK it seems, but I think I can find sufficient bits on Amazon. Many thanks!

You won't need this for a while but we would love to see what you choose and how you use it. We are always here with free advice worth every penny you pay for it.

You need water stones for harder steels. If you're not going j-knife in the future, you'll do fine with "oil" stones (whether to use oil or not is another conversation). You'll get very refined edges, indeed, on some of the smoother Arks, with a knife like the Victorinox/Forschner.

For versatility, of course there's no harm in using water stones. I'd suggest getting a combo 1000/4000 from japanesechefknife dot com as an entry water stone. They're splash and go and surprisingly good (feedback, smooth) for the price range. And on your current knives you won't ever need above 4000. Eventually you might want coarser, but it'll be a while. And you have to know how to sharpen to go coarse -- you can't put metal back. 1000 water stone will already be fast for a blade soft as the Victorinox. IMO etc etc.

In the end, I ordered these:
Steel : http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003R7KZA8
Stone: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003ASDAGU

Would have liked a higher grit on the stone (something like 1000 & 3000), but this will do for now!

I think the stone is a water stone, not oil - is this correct? Also sounds like it doesn't need too much soaking..

I also considered this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Am-Tech-Sided-Diamond-Sharpening-Block/dp/B007NHR3BC, based on the initial response to my question. But I thought I would rather a real stone for the same price.

Also considered this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/SODIAL-Combination-Sharpener-Sharpening-Whetstone/dp/B00K6Y0OWE, just because it's cheap. But I didn't quite trust it. Seemed too cheap to be good, and with no reviews... would be interested to hear opinions..

Width hindsight, these also look good (not sure why I didn't see them before). Might have been a better match, but nevermind!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Taidea-Professional-Sharpening-Sharpener-0-6-Inch/dp/B00N2J0RFE
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Water-Whetstone-Sharpener-Sharpening-Flattening/dp/B00MGLHOXM

I was also very tempted by one of the nice ceramic steels, which look much smoother. But they were twice the cost and reviews said that cheaper ones can snap easily. So thought I'd keep it simple. Does the steel look ok?

I'll just reply to the first part for now. That is, I read your post, but only have had a chance to glance at the first two items linked.
Yes, you bought a water stone (combo stone). An "oil stone" doesn't necessarily need oil. There are debates about this. The real distinction is whether the stone breaks down with water, creating some slurry, or not. The description of what you bought says: "The firm but porous structure of the stone continuously releases small particles during the sharpening process that when combined with water are responsible for sharpening the knife blade". So there you go. My one concern with this stone is ... just don't touch the 400 side for a while. That's coarse already, and particularly for something like the Victorinox blade. That is, it will cut very fast, and you need to be very good at holding a steady angle before you want to think about something that coarse. "You cannot put metal back". On the other hand, for future knives, if you get something with a harder steel, you will find that coming in handy. Or for something/anything that needs to be thinned behind the edge. But that's further in the future.

On the other hand, too, the highest grit stone you have, now, is 1,000. This will definitely give you a sharp, toothy edge, which is perfect for some things. Maybe everything you want. 2000 - 4000 is more a "finished edge" for someone who is concerned about bruising herbs and such. But again, harder steels will hold a higher polish better ... you'll be fine with the edge the 1,000 side gives you with your current main knife. I think something 2000 or 4000 is a more finished edge, but even more, cuts slower. For a beginner this is important while you're learning to sharpen. More reps -- literally. That is, the main thing you'll have to be good at when learning to sharpen on a stone is being able to keep the angle constant across each stroke. You get to practice more strokes with a higher grit stone, because they wear your knife away less.

The steel -- I can't really tell , but it looks like it'll work. I can't tell if it's a smooth steel or if there are striations running the length of it. And if the latter, how fine those striations are. You don't want something too rough. Ceramic steels again become more of an issue for harder blades. And even then, at some point, you don't really need to use it (i.e., with japanese knives, mostly). That steel will likely knock the polish off an edge which is sharpened on a higher-grit stone. (So will a ceramic "steel", finally). You want a steel harder than the knife, mostly, and you're doing fine there, again, with your current knife.

I'm not at all talking down to your current knife, by the way -- most people won't ever need anything better, and many will never see something as good. If you become a "knife guy" (like many here are "razor guys") there are all kinds of ways to upgrade; but you got a good one for cutting onions.

Thanks for the detailed feedback! Wishing I had gone for the 1000/4000 now. But nevermind.

Don't mind talking down at all! I know that there are many better ones - but for me, this is still a huge step up for now. Everything is relative, so it is useful to know what is realistic for what I have, but also what might apply should I ever upgrade in the future.. so thanks for the detail!

I do also have a very blunt Sabatier in the drawer (my ex's, which was used and not sharpened for many years), so perhaps the 400 could be useful on that? If it needs a lot of work? Or will it sharpen up quite quickly on the 1000?

Yes, the steel looks like it has some ridges - but I can't really see how deep. Hopefully ok.

One day... I might also like to try a straight razor (currently I'm using DE).. what stone would you typically use for that? Would be great if it was dual purpose.. do you get a similar variation in steels?

Razor honing is a different kettle of fish... go to the straights honing su forum and you'll find many people who can guide you far better than I. I'm interested in learning, too... mostly you'll need something with a far higher grit to finish razors. Decisions about synthetic stones, J-nats, lapping film..... I'll stop before I get in over my head.

You'll need something to lap/flatten your new waterstone, too. And extra-extra coarse diamond plate is the convenient thing (and expensive thing). You can do just as well with some drywall sanding screen and a marble tile or plate.glass or some other perfectly flat surface to rub against.

The Sabatier -- let me know if there's any more branding info (jist for mu curiosity) and whether it's a stainless- or carbon-steel knife. Either way, the 400 grit will be useful if you have to remove a lot of metal... that is, of there are chips or divots out of the edge. If not, and there's still a workable bevel on the knife, the 1000 will be plenty fast.

I think the steel you got is fine for either of those two knives. I have one that looks like it, and I'll use it for Sabs or German knives. I've pretty much quit steeling J-knives, and just "strop" on the splash-and-go stone if I think the edge needs trueing. But a steel is far more convenient with a knife like yours, which responds well to steeling.

Ok, won't think about that for now or I'll confuse myself even more! Baby steps!!

Yes, I had read about that. I will worry about that once they arrive. I did hear that you can often find a surface to make do with.. this will probably be my approach for now, to keep costs down.

I can check the knife when I get home. No chips I don't think, just very blunt. Perhaps the 400 would be overkill. I may just return the 400/1000 and get the 1000/4000, which sounds a bit more useful.

I kinda hate to encourage a newb to spend more... but if you can find it within your means, get a separate stone for 4000 and you'll be set. That 400 will be necessary down the line fairly soon. You just don't want to learn on it, because it will indeed be fast on the Victorinox. But yes, an exchange is prudent if you can only pay for the combo stone now. You won't need anything in the 400 - 500 range until you have a dinged up edge, or a k ife that's been sharpened enough that you have to thin behind the edge. (The latter will not likely be an issue for the Victorinox; it will for the Sab).

I like the profile of Sabs a lot. If it's carbon steel, it'll be even easier to sharpen and take a better edge than stainless. (Most Sab stainless are not the greatest metal, really overly soft; but I still prefer the profile to the bigger bellies of the Victorinox or German knives). (I asked about brand because I wonder if you have a real gem that is just needing sharpening. And... if you need lessons on the care and feeding of carbon steel in the kitchen, just ask. It's easy, really, just more demanding of "when" than stainless).