SLurry stone or not

I have a 4000/8000 Norton and I am not quite getting the sharpness on any of my 3 razors, that I think I need to get as comfortable shave as my DE. I think the bevel is set but not sure how to make sure it is correct. Do I need to get a slurry stone to help the process. What do I need. Do I use it on both sides or just the 4000. What do you recommend (less expensive to start with).

thanks

The slurry stone helps very little.. Get a 1000k bevel setter... It's the most important part of honing

Heespharm said:

The slurry stone helps very little.. Get a 1000k bevel setter... It's the most important part of honing

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Yep. If you "think" the bevel is set it might not be. I'd get a 1k and be double sure.

If you have the cash to spend get a Chosera, if not I'd get a King.

If you don't plan on restoring or buying beat up old razors I'd go with the King, they are cheap and they do the job.

If you think you might like to buy old razors and get them shaving again go ahead and get he chosera.

The Chosera is going to be much faster and won't need to be lapped very often, the king will be slower and softer imo.

Have to agree with starting off with the 1k first.
I also finish off with a pasted strop, Crox.

If you're not sure about the bevel, then it's most likely not there. You "could" do it on the 4k, but it'll be much much easier on a 1k stone.
As for the norton slurry stone, I use mine (Ice Bear brand) just to help wash the swarf away.

Send them out to a pro to set the bevel. It is not that easy unless the razor is in perfect alignment. Vintage razors usually have some issues. You won't be able to diagnose and mediate. Just send them to one of our Honemeisters. Then get a finisher. Many to choose from. Thuringian, Apache, Coticule, Jnat, Arkansas. If you put them on the finisher on a regular basis and keep them away from pasted strops the bevel can last forever.

Bevel setting should be completed on 1K. You need to be able to shave arm hairs off the 1k before proceeding. You can also move to the 4K to complete the bevel setting process - Norton 1K can be a little too coarse.

You should not use a slurry stone on Nortons. Nortons are water stones that are porous (which is why you are supposed to soak them for 10 minutes before using). If you use a slurry stone on a Norton, the pores will get clogged and will reduce the efficiency of the Norton.
You will notice that, when the steel particles (swarf) from the blade, begin to clog the pores, grinding efficiency goes down and you have to clean the stone by lapping with a Norton Flattening Stone.

Slurry stones are used on non-porous rocks. The slurry generated becomes a grinding medium that speeds up the grinding process. If you do not use a slurry on a non-porous rock, the grinding process will take longer. In the case of working with Jnats, a series of naguras (slurry stones) of different hardness levels, are used to obtain the required level of edge refinement.
Finishing can be done on a fine grit stone, 12K or higher, without slurry.
Some guys can finish on an approx 8K coticle with excellent results but, that takes a lot of practice!

It sounds like you may be having trouble refining the edge past the 8K Norton level.
Personally, I like using my 1K and 4K/8K Nortons and then, I switch to 3um and finally 1um film before stropping.
I like Nortons because, are relatively soft and easy to keep flat.
I like refining with film because, I'm lazy and film requires less practice.

Every once in a while, I monkey around with refining on my Welsh Slate and soaped coticule.
When refining, you have to be especially careful to use as little pressure as possible.
After maxing out the edge on the 8K Norton, you need to switch to a finishing stone.
You don't need many strokes or pressure to put the final edge on the blade.
If you refine too much, you'll get a floppy edge that won't make it through the first pass.

+1 on the suggestion that the blade geometry could be off.
Some blades are just too worn - the spine could be too narrow to be honed without tape or, the width of the blade (spine to edge) could be too short.
If the spine is too narrow, your edge angle will be too thin and the edge will be floppy.
If the width is too short, your edge angle will be too steep and you may as well chuck the razor because, honing will require super human skill.
There is a thread, here on B&B, that has a Bevel Calculator that will help you to determine if your geometry is off and if tape will do any good.

Hope this helps!

Plenty of bevels have been set on the 4k Norton.
Make sure the stone is perfectly flat and clear off the swarf buildup as you go.
No slurry is needed on that stone.