If you followed Nelson's thread about the Apache, you know I had a lot of trouble with mine causing a fairly large amount of edge damage, and requiring careful finishing on oil. This was contrary to most others results in that thread, finding it quite fast, easy to use, and successful with water. Nelson contacted the vendor about my results and I was sent a very nice replacement stone. The vendor was very generous and sent me a stone that he hand picked for me, which is also a very large size upgrade from my original stone, which I am grateful for, but you'll have to trust me would not change my opinion of the stone, as were this stone the same as my original, I'd not use it, whatever the size.
I tend to compare stones of this sort (fast, natural finishers), to Thuringians, as I have by far the most experience with Thuringians of any stones; and this stone does stack up against a Thuri much better than the previous one did. Is it as good or better than a Thuringian? At this point I can understand people feeling that way (it was out of the question with the original stone). The stone is similarly fast and leaves an edge that is neather starkly superior or inferior to Thuri's in my opinion. I give Thuri's the edge just because I find their feedback a bit more pleasant and easy under the razor, but my thoughts at this point is that this is a fine substitute for a Thuri, particularly if you prefer wider cut stones (Thuri's get quite expensive if you want one greater than 40mm wide). I pointed out that my original stone was superior to most of the recent fad stones we've seen, and that was true. This stone blows those away, and actually is more fairly compared against stones like Thuringians. Will I be getting rid of my Thuri's or starting a collection of Apache's? No; one is enough. But it will see use, and coming from someone with a bookcase full of Thuri's, Eschers, Jnats, Arks, and others; that's pretty high praise.
Though still hard, this stone is far, far, far, far softer than my original. The difference is so profound, you can see it. Immediately on getting the stone I tested it and posted the results in Nelson's thread, that the edge damage problem was not present on water with this stone. I haven't tried it with oil, and don't plan to at this point.
I've since reset a razor to 8k and finished it on this stone (this being the method Nelson originally found success with and which most others are having success with), and shaved with it. While I still don't get the coticule comfort some are finding, I have found the shave to be similar to some of my jnats. Not stupidly comfortable (like a coticule), but plenty comfortable with proper stretching and quite effortless, especially in ATG pass.
The vendor has a lot more stones available than originally, including a good selection at reasonable prices (when I bought mine, I got the only one under $100 listed at the time). I personally prefer longer stones, but the prices on the Apache appear to make stubbier, wider stones a better value, quite the opposite of coticules in that regard; so picking up a palm-stone in the 5" long and 2-3" wide range looks like a pretty good option for someone in need of a finisher. Assuming we don't see more results like I had with my original stone turning up, I don't have any qualms recommending these stones, though a large part of that is because of the supply of smaller stones, which make the Apache a much better value (with the larger stones available for those who want them).
My original stone is on the left, the replacement is on the right. The faults in the replacement are undetectable and have no effect on honing. Interestingly, the original stone that did damage the edge was totally free of these. As mentioned the replacement is much softer, feels subtly chalky to the touch, and is much paler without the glassy look to the surface of the original stone.
If I were buying another, I'd look for a pale, chalky looking one.
I tend to compare stones of this sort (fast, natural finishers), to Thuringians, as I have by far the most experience with Thuringians of any stones; and this stone does stack up against a Thuri much better than the previous one did. Is it as good or better than a Thuringian? At this point I can understand people feeling that way (it was out of the question with the original stone). The stone is similarly fast and leaves an edge that is neather starkly superior or inferior to Thuri's in my opinion. I give Thuri's the edge just because I find their feedback a bit more pleasant and easy under the razor, but my thoughts at this point is that this is a fine substitute for a Thuri, particularly if you prefer wider cut stones (Thuri's get quite expensive if you want one greater than 40mm wide). I pointed out that my original stone was superior to most of the recent fad stones we've seen, and that was true. This stone blows those away, and actually is more fairly compared against stones like Thuringians. Will I be getting rid of my Thuri's or starting a collection of Apache's? No; one is enough. But it will see use, and coming from someone with a bookcase full of Thuri's, Eschers, Jnats, Arks, and others; that's pretty high praise.
Though still hard, this stone is far, far, far, far softer than my original. The difference is so profound, you can see it. Immediately on getting the stone I tested it and posted the results in Nelson's thread, that the edge damage problem was not present on water with this stone. I haven't tried it with oil, and don't plan to at this point.
I've since reset a razor to 8k and finished it on this stone (this being the method Nelson originally found success with and which most others are having success with), and shaved with it. While I still don't get the coticule comfort some are finding, I have found the shave to be similar to some of my jnats. Not stupidly comfortable (like a coticule), but plenty comfortable with proper stretching and quite effortless, especially in ATG pass.
The vendor has a lot more stones available than originally, including a good selection at reasonable prices (when I bought mine, I got the only one under $100 listed at the time). I personally prefer longer stones, but the prices on the Apache appear to make stubbier, wider stones a better value, quite the opposite of coticules in that regard; so picking up a palm-stone in the 5" long and 2-3" wide range looks like a pretty good option for someone in need of a finisher. Assuming we don't see more results like I had with my original stone turning up, I don't have any qualms recommending these stones, though a large part of that is because of the supply of smaller stones, which make the Apache a much better value (with the larger stones available for those who want them).
My original stone is on the left, the replacement is on the right. The faults in the replacement are undetectable and have no effect on honing. Interestingly, the original stone that did damage the edge was totally free of these. As mentioned the replacement is much softer, feels subtly chalky to the touch, and is much paler without the glassy look to the surface of the original stone.
If I were buying another, I'd look for a pale, chalky looking one.
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. Try a good coti edge finished with 10-20 laps on the apache. Stupidly comfortable but with the little bit of keenness that coti edges sometimes lack.
