Brush Advice - Upgrade from 21mm Muhle Silvertip Fibre

I started this DE thing back in June 2014, and my only brush to date is a Muhle Silvertip Fibre 21mm that I bought at that time. I like it quite a bit, but I have 2 things I'd like to improve, and I really feel overwhelmed in my searching.

I have a REALLY hard time with soaps and this brush. Tabac is pretty good. MWF is pretty good, but other soaps (I think the harder ones that I have), for example Klar, even after 90 seconds of loading, soak the puck, wet brush, dry brush, most soaps I just end up with not enough on my face and constantly have to go back to reload. I'm getting tired of it. I really like the soaps I have gotten, but I find as time goes on, I almost daily now am just going to the cremes, or like the TOBS croap. Because with them the Silvertip Fibre really seems to work great, plenty of lather for 3+ passes, etc.

Second (minor) beef is that the Silvertip Fibre brush feels a bit thin on the face. It is very soft with light touch, but a bit of splay and it just doesn't feel like there's enough bristles there, if my description makes any sense. A bit more density I guess is what I'd like.

And I'd like any new brush to be a wee bit stiffer. My father has a Simpsons Colonel, and it has a bit more backbone it seems, though I find it a bit small also.

So, I'm really looking for a bit of advice. Just a small step up on the Muhle, which other than the soaps I seem to overall be happy with. I'm open to badger or synthetic. I face lather, or every now and then palm lather (usually the soaps I'm struggling with) I'd even be willing to spend up to maybe $120 on a brush. In my brain (since my experience is limited), something like Kent BLK8 "looks" to me to really be what I have in my mind as the type of brush I'd enjoy. Nice big head, with more bloom than my Muhle. But this is just in my brain. Without having used one, I might be way off.

Would even a 23mm or 25mm Muhle Silvertip Fibre be the right choice? HL Thaeter? Semogue?

I'm a "value" kinda guy for the most part, meaning if I can get synthetic brush at $50 with just as good a performance as a silvertip badger for $120, I will get the synthetic. But I prefer to spend a bit $ more on 1 or 2 high quality items that I know will serve me well year after year vs accumulating a bunch of cheaper items and taking them for a spin but never really loving any of them.... If this helps to narrow things down at all.

And I prefer new. Something about used brushes grosses me out unfortunately.

My advise would be to try out some truly tested and loved brushes, that don't cost a fortune to see which direction to got to?

And it actually sounds like you want to try a boar

So how about:
Omega 49 ~10-15$
B&B Essential ~20$
Semgoue 1305 (or RazoRock Amici, which is the same brush just with un-dyed hair) ~20$

If you want to try Bagder:
Whipped Dog (I have a 24mm Silvertip set with a 48mm loft, or you could try the new 2 band from Larry) ~35$

Once you know what tickles your fancy you can then start to invest more - but maybe a Silvertip is too soft for you and you like the scrub of a boar anyway?

In any case, trying out new brushes is loads of fun - so enjoy!

I would second the suggestion above. Get yourself an omega 10049! Excellent brush..!

Appreciate the replies! Just threw an Omega 49 Red into an order of other supplies I was already making.

For $9 I figured why not.

I also have the Muhle Silvertip fibre and I love it. Never had any trouble with soap, croap or cream.
Im not saying not to get another brush, but that may not fix your problem.
Need to look elsewhere I think.
If it was the brushes fault, you would have a case to return is as a shaving brush that doesn't lather soap is not of merchantable quality.

You're on the right path with the cheap Omega 49 - just allow yourself a while to break that big boy in as it'll be stiffer than a honeymooner for the first couple of uses - especially compared to your STF.

Somewhat curious that you had issues with it as MWF is notoriously finnicky (not that I ever found truth to this) and it's pretty hard as soaps go, but is logical to start with the $9 brush and work your way up from there so Alfredus gave very good advice.

I am not sure why I don't struggle much with MWF. This one seems to respond well to a soak while I am in the shower and when I use plenty of water, I get a really good lather with the Muhle STF.

But I have Vergulde Hand, Tabac, Muhle soap, Klar Klassik, and the Muhle brush just really seems to struggle with most of them. Tabac I can get a great lather with enough loading. MWF I usually load 90 seconds. The others, it doesn't seem to really matter so much, the brush just doesn't seem to pick up enough soap, especially the Klar Klassik....2 mins of loading and it still gives maybe 1 pass at best. And to read how people love this soap, I find it one of the worst in my bathroom. So yeah, i wonder what I'm doing wrong. Smells great though!

I think the water where I live might be a bit hard, which could be part of it.

But looking forward to trying the boar brush regardless.

Definitely want to get a bigger brush that loads up quicker. The Semogue SOC boar would be huge here. Omega 49 very similar, just not quite as fancy.

I have a custom Muhle STF, a 25mm knot set to 55mm deep, from Rudy Vey. It's FAR denser than previous STF brushes I've used. I have a 19mm which is not dense at all and had 21 and 23mm versions before. It's dense to the point that it hogs lather a bit, but I'm still thinking it will open up and splay a bit.

So the 23mm I think hits a nice sweet spot with bowl lathering, but for face lathering I don't like the Muhle brushes. Too messy.

Another option if you want to stick with badger, check out a TGN Finest in about 24mm. Big brushes, soft tips, don't hog lather.

+1 that the Muhle synthetics (and likewise the Plisson synthetic and, from what others way, various other synthetics) lather hard pucks fast (they tend to use less product) and super well. Something else is likely causing the lather problems. That said, the Omega boar brushes are excellent performers and a great bargain.

Did exactly as you mentioned, went from the 21 mm to the 25 mm of the SilverTip Fibre XL and haven't looked back. Works equally well for me with creams and soaps while my classic silvertips gather dust.

If I should feel for a soft treatment in the morning, I reach for the L'Occitane-Plisson synthetic.

Well I used the Klar Klassik this morning, and tried to get a couple photos of my situation. I loaded with a wet brush (maybe 1-2 light shakes) and soaked the puck while I was in the shower. I then loaded with the puck upside down for over 2 minutes.

Lets see if I can upload the photos.

You can see that after loading, the brush is actually pretty darn full of lather (note this photo is a "redo" of my load situation...I didn't get a photo of the original loading). Round 1 was excellent, but round 2 it already took a noticeable drop with some definite burn on the pass in the neck area. The second photo is how the brush looks after 2 passes, so just as I'm starting my 3rd pass. I gave it some swipes on the cheeks at the start of number 3 and it is very thin and runny with my skin showing easily under the lather. so I went back to the puck another 60 seconds and got enough to finish the shave.

This is basically how all my experience goes with soaps....with the harder ones being the worst. MWF as I said seems to be OK, not great, but enough for 3 passes. Tabac I can get 3 passes. Muhle soap, Klar, and Vergulde Hand I basically have to load 2 minutes and then go back to the puck.

I NEVER have this issue on any creams or croap. TOBS, Cella, Proraso, Speick, Musgo, Palmolive, Weleda, or Braukmann. All great for 3 passes with plenty left in the brush.

Anyway, at this point I'm about to just accept that STF just doesn't work well with soap.... I'm just a bit surprised because everyone seems to rave about this material and how it works with soap. Which then makes me wonder if I'm the one doing something wrong.

Quite sure the brush is the V2 fibers btw, based on photos and that I purchased it direct from Muehle Germany in June 2014.

EDIT: sorry i cant figure out how to get the photos to load with the correct rotation...

Jerome10 said:

Anyway, at this point I'm about to just accept that STF just doesn't work well with soap.... I'm just a bit surprised because everyone seems to rave about this material and how it works with soap. Which then makes me wonder if I'm the one doing something wrong.

Click to expand...

I have a Muhle XL silvertip fiber and I flat out don't like the brush for hard soap. It is way too soft and floppy to cut through hard soap or for face lathering.

For hard soaps I tend to prefer one of my Semogue boar brushes or Thater 28mm 3-band silvertip finest badger.



--Jerome

Try soaking the soap in water for a while, even overnight. Night and day for me with some soaps. Super hard soaps might not make as big of a difference. But a boar works well there.

I am not exactly sure why you are having issues with the lather running but it may be fixed with loading differently. I do NO soaking with the brush and simply place the needed water for the lather on the soap, hard or soft soap. It helps or may be needed to have a soap in a container with walls. Then I load until all of the water is picked up in the brush, and may continue to load if I feel it is needed.

I can tell you that I did have similar experiences with runny lather and seemed to find that I just have a deep small bowl to place the bristles down in between passes. This is to keep the lather at the end of the knot instead of the base.

The user above said he has the 25mm XL and DOES NOT like it for hard soap. This is a case of YMMV. I find ithis is my deciated hard soap eater and picks up perfect for hard soaps like Mystic Water, Klar Kabinett, or Pre de Provence . Those all hate to give up soap to any brush.

To note, I had two of the 23mm Muhle STF and they worked okay for me but it was lacking loft height and density. The 25mm is VERY packed in comparison to the 19,21, and 23mm. The smaller sized knots seem to require a LOT of pressure to bend. These seem to have a lot of springiness to them which in my opinion is great when loading but can be a little tough on the skin. The higher loft on the 25mm is 58mm if I remember and to me it wants to bend and splay naturally like badger hair.

So my answer is to bite the bullet and invest in the 25mm. You can see how many have tried the lower sized models and happily stayed with the XL size.

Cheers

zaclikestoshave said:

The user above said he has the 25mm XL and DOES NOT like it for hard soap. This is a case of YMMV. I find ithis is my deciated hard soap eater and picks up perfect for hard soaps...

To note, I had two of the 23mm Muhle STF and they worked okay for me but it was lacking loft height and density. The 25mm is VERY packed in comparison to the 19,21, and 23mm. The smaller sized knots seem to require a LOT of pressure to bend. These seem to have a lot of springiness to them which in my opinion is great...

So my answer is to bite the bullet and invest in the 25mm. You can see how many have tried the lower sized models and happily stayed with the XL size.

Cheers

Click to expand...

+1
My sentiments, exactly.



B

alfredus said:

My advise would be to try out some truly tested and loved brushes, that don't cost a fortune to see which direction to got to?

And it actually sounds like you want to try a boar

So how about:
Omega 49 ~10-15$
B&B Essential ~20$
Semgoue 1305 (or RazoRock Amici, which is the same brush just with un-dyed hair) ~20$

If you want to try Bagder:
Whipped Dog (I have a 24mm Silvertip set with a 48mm loft, or you could try the new 2 band from Larry) ~35$

Once you know what tickles your fancy you can then start to invest more - but maybe a Silvertip is too soft for you and you like the scrub of a boar anyway?

In any case, trying out new brushes is loads of fun - so enjoy!

Click to expand...

I second Alfredus' suggestion to try a boar (or two).

I do have one correction, however:
I believe Alfredus intended to refer to a different RazoRock brush. The "Amici" is a mixed badger/boar brush, and is nothing like the Semogue 1305.

I'm interested in this thread, as well. I also have a 21mm STF2 brush, and while it works well, and I still use it for travel, I don't use it much at home. I think that I'd use a bigger version more often and wasn't sure whether to get the 23mm or the 25mm. I've read opinions praising both (and stating that each is better than the other), but after reading Zac's and Brutus' posts, I think that I'll go with the 25mm. Jarick's brush (a 25mm set to a lower loft) is interesting, as well.

zaclikestoshave said:

The user above said he has the 25mm XL and DOES NOT like it for hard soap. This is a case of YMMV. I find ithis is my deciated hard soap eater and picks up perfect for hard soaps like Mystic Water, Klar Kabinett, or Pre de Provence . Those all hate to give up soap to any brush.

Click to expand...

Of course it's a case of YMMV. Every purchase is. I just think for the money (I paid $100 for my Muhle XL Silvertip Fiber) there are far better brushes to be had. And given that I have an array of brushes I like better -- a few Semogues, a Vie-Long, a couple of Simpsons, and a couple of Thaters -- there is very little incentive for me to pick up the Muhle XL synthetic again.

That said, I do love the feel of the brush on my skin. I just don't much care for it as a shaving tool.

--Jerome

I have a 23mm EJ which I think is the same knot as Muhle STF. Never had trouble lathering any soap in the den with it although I rarely use it as I much prefer my badgers. It sounds to me like you might be using too much water. I find with a lot of hard soaps if you start with too much water you end up with a lot of foaming which acts like a barrier between the brush and the soap and you just can't pick up enough no matter how much swirling you do. You might try no puck soaking and starting with a drier brush and adding water very gradually. The Omega Pro that you bought is a great brush and I'll be interested to see if you also have lather problems with it.

Peter_A said:

I seconds Alfredus' suggestion to try a boar (or two).

I do have one correction, however:
I believe Alfredus intended to refer to a different RazoRock brush. The "Amici" is a mixed badger/boar brush, and is nothing like the Semogue 1305.

Click to expand...

Of course you are absolutely right - I meant the Italian Barber Limited Edition - but that is out of stock anyway and you could only get it second hand - sorry for the mistake!