Rooney out of business?

I stopped into MenEssentials in Toronto today looking to actually touch a brush before I buy it and the salesman mentioned that Rooney is out of business. Not sure if this has been discussed before but I thought I put it out there for anyone hoping to purchase a new one as once the current stock sells they are gone. That being said I'd stay away from the heritage stubby. I had a bad shedder I had to return and apparently there were many others. My Rooney 3/1 and 2/2 are both great brushes though!

Them actually being out of business would surprise me a lot, but I believe they have fundamentally changed as a company. From all I've heard, their brushes are still very good quality, but they are no longer made lovingly by hand in the heart of London. The actualities are a very closely guarded secret, but I think many people assume that they essentially use the famous Rooney name and branding on imported brushes from China. Also, it's been a good long while since I've seen a new two-band heritage brush. I think a lot of the retailers have been able to get three-band heritage, but I suspect those are "higher grade" imports as well. Granted my sample size is very small, but I tried a three-band heritage, and it was OK, but nothing really super special. Based on that experience alone, I don't think I'd buy another.

That's interesting information. Thanks for posting.

chamm said:

Granted my sample size is very small, but I tried a three-band heritage, and it was OK, but nothing really super special. Based on that experience alone, I don't think I'd buy another.

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Do you have a picture of this brush so we know what to stay away from?

Crag said:

Do you have a picture of this brush so we know what to stay away from?

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No, I sold it a while back. It was a Stubby 1XL. Like I said, it wasn't bad, but for that kind of money, I was expecting something special, and it was just kinda... meh...

That would be sad, but if the Rooney brush I bought earlier this year is representative of their current QC/manufacturing, it wouldn't surprise me. It was a horrible shedder, I sent it back to the vendor for a refund.

chamm said:

No, I sold it a while back. It was a Stubby 1XL. Like I said, it wasn't bad, but for that kind of money, I was expecting something special, and it was just kinda... meh...

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Bummer. ..I was thinking of getting one...now I'm not so sure...

Crag said:

Bummer. ..I was thinking of getting one...now I'm not so sure...

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It pains me to say this, but I would probably pass. The Rooney of today isn't the Rooney of yesterday. You can get a better brush for the same price from another manufacturer. If a friend asked my advice, I would probably steer him towards some of the German brushes. Shavemac, Thäter, Wiborg are all generally more consistent and higher quality, and they all offer choices in the same price ranges as an old Rooney Heritage as well as the "other" Rooneys. If you can get in touch with Lee and you have a little patience, M&F is absolutely unbeatable. And if you're looking at a sub-$100 Rooney, I might recommend a Simpson in Best or a nice Vulfix from a reputable vendor. The more expensive Simpsons are quite good as well, but IMO, just a tad overpriced. Not egregiously so, but enough that I'd recommend one of the Germans first.

I should have my first Kent this weekend, so I can't comment on them yet.

Best of luck in your hunt!

I would lean towards believing they are out of business,and cheap Chinese brushes bearing the Rooney logo still means the "real" Rooney is gone...All info points to this,the few brushes that have been turning up are NOS from here and there,but no real output like there was when the true Rooney factory was cranking them out...

love my kent bk8 softest I own. thanks for the heads up on rooney. got a 3/1 and it is incredible. such a loss. I have been all over these threads today and have read a lot of your posts. stainless steel composition of razors wow. since I have developed this rad I wonder if you know how I could go about getting a 1949 Gillette? any one of that era.

daveinsweethome said:

love my kent bk8 softest I own. thanks for the heads up on rooney. got a 3/1 and it is incredible. such a loss. I have been all over these threads today and have read a lot of your posts. stainless steel composition of razors wow. since I have developed this rad I wonder if you know how I could go about getting a 1949 Gillette? any one of that era.

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I would recommend the Buy/Sell/Trade section of the forums first, then check popular online auction sites. Generally, people here know what they have and offer it at a fair price. (And if they don't, other helpful members are usually a little over-anxious to let them know...) I you look on e... er... One of the more popular online auction sites, you're more likely to find a specific year/make/model, but those places often attract people looking to extract maximum {$currency} from buyers. Most of my transactions have gone reasonably smoothly, but you can get burned if you aren't careful.

Thanks for the news.

thanks I have had many b/s/t/ deals and everyone went fine. very interesting people here. just used a stahly for the first time with a feather and I won. crappy shave but certainly something different. finished with a r41 and bbs. love this new fetish of mine. I lived in mt Vernon, ohio as a kid. beautiful town in the 60s

Rooney's finest just shot up in price again!

I have a 3/1 super silver tip I bought earlier this year and it has all the correct markings (I know that is easy to fake) that say made in England, the workmanship looks good and in 3 months of use has shed one hair. It was purchased from a respected dealer, so I guess, or hope, it was NOS.

I heard the same from Seth @ Menessentials and then asked other vendors for confirmation. Fendrihan said that they are not aware of Rooney going out of business, but that they do not deal with Rooney directly. Menessentials and Fendrihan both go through a distributor (the same distributor, I believe). Jim at Vintageblades is one of the few vendors that does not go through a distributor and deals with Rooney directly. Jim said that he is not aware of them going out of business, and that he received a shipment of regular grade brushes in August. At that time, they were still operating, but of course it may have changed since then. Regarding 2-band heritage brushes, he mentioned that Rooney has had a supply issue getting the hair that is needed to their satisfaction to make those brushes. They had a shipment of hair to test out coming in August, and if that didn't work out another shipment in October.

I think Lee is probably just on vacation as we haven't seen many M&F's lately either...coincidence?

I've been re-reading this thread and thinking about some of the comments, and I'm not entirely sure what the concern is other than for the brand name. Most if not all of the best badger brushes are in effect made in China because that's where the badgers are made, and the hair is the business end of any badger brush. So are we concerned that the plastic handle is now being made in China or that it's glued with Chinese epoxy?

The idea that the Chinese can't make as good a shaving brush as the English would seem unlikely provided they set out to do that. Based on the samples I've owned and comments I've read, making a fine badger hair brush is really more art than science, and there are plenty of people in many countries who can make excellent ones.

Cheers, Steve

Steve56 said:

I've been re-reading this thread and thinking about some of the comments, and I'm not entirely sure what the concern is other than for the brand name. Most if not all of the best badger brushes are in effect made in China because that's where the badgers are made, and the hair is the business end of any badger brush. So are we concerned that the plastic handle is now being made in China or that it's glued with Chinese epoxy?

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Badger hair is sourced from China, but companies like Rooney craft the hair into a knot by hand. This is where a lot of the artistry lies. Many of these old companies also create the handle by hand on a lathe.

Steve56 said:

I've been re-reading this thread and thinking about some of the comments, and I'm not entirely sure what the concern is other than for the brand name. Most if not all of the best badger brushes are in effect made in China because that's where the badgers are made, and the hair is the business end of any badger brush. So are we concerned that the plastic handle is now being made in China or that it's glued with Chinese epoxy?

The idea that the Chinese can't make as good a shaving brush as the English would seem unlikely provided they set out to do that. Based on the samples I've owned and comments I've read, making a fine badger hair brush is really more art than science, and there are plenty of people in many countries who can make excellent ones.

Cheers, Steve

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There are many fine Chinese-made brushes. But I have yet to see any with the quality or consistency of a nice German, British or artisan-made brush. They aren't "bad" by virtue of being Chinese, but quality speaks for itself. Reputations take years or decades to build, and if Frank Shaving would start cranking out high quality brushes, there is no reason they couldn't earn such a reputation. As for me, I have three FS brushes. All three feel luxurious on the skin, have great density, and consistently shed 2-3 hairs per shave. Are they terrible? No. Are they as high quality as any of my M&F brushes? Not by a mile.

Also, while all badger hair comes from China, the real art of brush making is in the sorting and stuffing, as well as the handle. There is a huge difference between sorting and stuffing that takes place in a factory vs. that which is done by a trained artisan.