Trouble with Lather AOS

Six days a week I bowl lather creams.

On Sunday's I've tried the hard soap every week for six months or so.
I don't get very much or very thick lather, must be doing something wrong.

I've got a Sandalwood Art of Shaving soap in a lovely wooden bowl.
I put some water on the puck for 5-10 minutes.
Then squeeze out my brush (currently trying a boar hair).
Scrub circles back and forth and really try to load up that proto-lather.
Move over to my regular lather bowl and try to finish it up.
Starts out dryish and I slowly add water.
It gets up to a fairly week lather and then more water turns it to garbage.

I've really tried to get lots of soap into the brush but I get little return compared to my creams
What am I missing? .... are there magic words I don't know?

Thanks,
Curt
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Face lather it.

I don't follow "Marco's Method" and typically go with a pretty dry brush too, but I've found when I'm loading it often isn't enough to just load for a while with a pretty dry brush and then move on to bowl or face lathering - I'll load for a bit, then drip a bit of water on the soap, then load a bit more, add a bit more water, etc. The end result may be the same as Marco's Method but it means I can control the amount of water a bit more. I think the key is that just loading with a super dry brush may not be enough to really build up a solid amount of paste on the brush tips.

From there, I deviate from what you do by face lathering - I've always preferred to face lather, and got better results than bowl lathering in general regardless of whether I use a soap or cream, but especially with soaps.

The other trick I have noticed with boar brushes is that it's very easy to fall into a lather building pattern where you aren't really "agitating" the soap lather. The hair bristle can tend to stick together where you're just going around and around in a painting motion - you'll never build very good lather like this. You have to do some pumping action and get the hairs to splay so that it really does a proper job mixing air and water into the soap and applies some friction. My guess is a textured bowl would help in this regard, which would perform a similar function to agitate the soap as your stubble does when face lathering.

Triple the loading time on the puck.

I've had more success with AoS pucks when I start the brush wet and work up a good proto lather on the puck. It is a little messy, but seems to get the puck going a little better.

I also press the brush into the puck pretty good (similar to the above splaying advice) - get that lather nice and high into the bristles. The hard triple milled soaps (like MWF and DR Harris and AoS) seem to do better this way.

Go West Young Man said:

Triple the loading time on the puck.

Click to expand...

+1

Hard pucks need additional loading time. When you think you have enough proto-lather.....load for till you have twice the amount. It may seem like you are eating through the puck, but you will be surprised how long a puck will last considering it is hard (not soft).

My first question is whether you're using a new boar brush?

If so, and it has not yet broken-in, it could easily explain your difficulty lathering the soap. Until the tips on some boars split, they are notoriously fickle, and often poor latherers.

My second question is whether you soaked your brush at least a few solid minutes before using?

Boars soak-up water. Often, if they are not properly hydrated before use, they can "eat" your lather as it absorbs the water.

In any event, I would recommend a wet, but not dripping, brush, and load MUCH, MUCH MORE that you would with a badger brush.

Good luck.

Scotchd said:

I've had more success with AoS pucks when I start the brush wet and work up a good proto lather on the puck. It is a little messy, but seems to get the puck going a little better.

I also press the brush into the puck pretty good (similar to the above splaying advice) - get that lather nice and high into the bristles. The hard triple milled soaps (like MWF and DR Harris and AoS) seem to do better this way.

Click to expand...

+1 this is the way to lather soaps. i've had the aforementioned problem with using a dry brush, or load hydrate method. The chemistry of that method makes little sense to me, so I use a sopping wet brush sideways or upside down over the sink to load the puck. Water'll fall off the brush from the pressure.

the chemistry makes more sense this way as well if you have hard water as you don't introduce as many hard ions later on that will ruin lather.

branford said:

My first question is whether you're using a new boar brush?

If so, and it has not yet broken-in, it could easily explain your difficulty lathering the soap. Until the tips on some boars split, they are notoriously fickle, and often poor latherers.

My second question is whether you soaked your brush at least a few solid minutes before using?

Boars soak-up water. Often, if they are not properly hydrated before use, they can "eat" your lather as it absorbs the water.

In any event, I would recommend a wet, but not dripping, brush, and load MUCH, MUCH MORE that you would with a badger brush.

Good luck.

Click to expand...

Yes the brush is new.

Yes I do soak the brush well.

Thanks, I'll load the damn brush even more!

I can't believe how different soap is from cream.

Thanks,
Curt

czbeme said:

Yes the brush is new.

Yes I do soak the brush well.

Thanks, I'll load the damn brush even more!

I can't believe how different soap is from cream.

Thanks,
Curt

Click to expand...

Once you get the hang of loading hard soaps (and they're different than soft Italian-style croaps), you'll employ the technique without thought or concern. It's also easier to adjust product and water ratios with a soap. That's one of the reasons why most seasoned wet shaver tend to prefer soaps.

Your new boar brush is also making your task more difficult. Dealing with two variables is never preferable. However, once the brush breaks-in, your loading and lathering will become much easier.

And, did I mention, you need to load your brush more.

Good luck!

Triple your load time, then build the lather in your bowl. Add water a few drops at at time as needed.

If that doesn't work, quadruple your load time...
Once you are able to create enough lather for two or three shaves, back off on the load time.

This thread may help: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/379595-2014-Use-More-Product

oldtrout said:

Triple your load time, then build the lather in your bowl. Add water a few drops at at time as needed.

If that doesn't work, quadruple your load time...
Once you are able to create enough lather for two or three shaves, back off on the load time.

Click to expand...

+10000000

Okay I've finally got it.
Lots of load time use more product.
It now works for me I'm able to get a lather very much like with my creams.
It takes me 3 times the time of cream, but it's an old timely kind of charm that I do on Sunday mornings.

Good to see that you got it down!