MGTOW. Selfish? (Or on target?

Your thoughts? Trend? Truth?

I am new to this theory myself but the sum of its parts make sense to me.

Men/Man Going Their Own Way.

MGTOW is basically the statement of self-ownership and saying that only you have the right to decide what your goals in life should be.

It is saying that, as a man I will not surrender my will to the social expectations of women and society, because both have become hostile against masculinity.

Neither society in general nor women in particular are the problem. The only power others have over you is that which you give them. Rather, the problem is mass group think that encourages conformity and (tries) to punish individuality.

Being a free thinking individual should necessarily entail living a thoughtful life on your own terms.

i'll have to agree with professor chaos, though by agreeing, i am not giving into group thinking, diminishing my own volition, or conforming to a standard externally imposed. the question of free speech, free thought, and free action is weighty indeed, and weight must be given to the social environment in which an individual exists to understand the context of their actions. to speak freely about religion 100 years ago in russia may have gotten you shot, or sent off to god knows what wasteland, but there exist many examples of individuals who did just that. no less powerful in potential are those who kept their opinions to themselves, though maybe we view this choice morally or in some other context as less or diminished. that all individuals in that context had a choice, and the ability to exercise it in whatever way they chose to remains true even were you to apply a different filter of time and place. neither the constitution of the united states nor the bill of rights has the authority to grant a person these freedoms, and indeed the constitution avows them to be self evident, and defined, not given, in the bill of rights, a bit of semantics that has been by and large lost or overlooked in recent years. the challenge of being true to yourself within a given social climate is the real exercise of individuality and what we are all about.

oh, and also, i agree that only i have a right to determine my destiny and life goals, but that i have a wife and partner, naturally i exercise that right to include her thoughts and feelings, as she reciprocates. the context of society need not hinder us in pursuing ourselves, but that we are historically social creatures and have survived within a social network can be respected as part of this personal choice; indeed it is quite diminished without this awareness and choice.

I like the basic principle behind the MGTOW movement, even though some aspects of it are somewhat rabid in nature (such as hatred/mistrust of women, stance of anti family in some cases). Some extremes take it to the point that men should never consider marriage nor having children under any circumstances. There are some laws on the books that seem to favor women and punish men in their application; thankfully, incidents of such are relatively few and far between.

My personal stance is that it shouldn't be considered an automatic responsibility of each man to marry and sire children. Some men are simply not cut out for wives or children. When a man sits down with himself and decides that he would like to have a family of his own and a legacy to pass to the next generation, that is when he should pursue it. He shouldn't do it because his girlfriend or other family members are pressuring him; he should only do it when he decides that it's what he desires to do. To that end, my personal opinion is that one should only get married when a family is in the cards. The same could be said for women as well.

People are the owners of their own lives (men and women both), and each person should unilaterally decide their own goals in life. If your goal is a family with a spouse, 2.3 kids and the white picket fence, then knuckle up and make it happen. If you want to live as the lone wolf, travel the world and collect souvenir shot glasses, get on it and do it.

I didnt know there was a formal term with how Ive always lived my life. I don' t get that women are singled out, though.

Nothing is easy.

If a Man is "Going Their Own Way", why would he need a club or a web page to do it? This is a flash in the pan that won't last IMO.

Very shallow and selfish.

Frank

I felt it was selfish and angry myself. I do however agree that there are parties on both sides that contribute to this thinking. Blame Madison Ave perhaps.

Lakebound said:

If a Man is "Going Their Own Way", why would he need a club or a web page to do it? This is a flash in the pan that won't last IMO.

Very shallow and selfish.

Frank

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Is it me, or does anyone else have Rush's "Freewill" running through their heads?

Just by being members of B&B, I, you, us have made a conscious effort to break away from what is the uniform standards set by corporations and advertisers. For many of us canned goop and carts were as good as it was going to get. After being led down the garden path for too long, many of us said there's got to be a better way. And for myself, I decided to get back into, after some twenty five years, wetshaving. After discovering B&B I not only found a collection of like-minded people, but in that collection I found many other sub-collections of people passionate about straight razors and double edge, boars and badgers, soaps and creams (honestly didn't know there was a difference...). As an individual, and one with the power to choose, I can make informed choices based on advice given here or upon my experiences. I'm no longer blindly reaching for a can of Edge Gel off the drugstore shelf every three weeks or, horrors, asking permission to have the locked-up-tight display of Mach Three cartridges unlocked by some drone so I may have the pleasure of forking out 18 bucks for a packet of four.

For me, I know now that switching to wetshaving was an act of individualism. I wanted something different, and I wanted to try it without influence.

Jeez, where's my copy of "Atlas Shrugged"? Never mind, I'll just cue up some "Freewill".

"No matter how much cats fight, there always seem to be plenty of kittens." --Abe Lincoln

Antique Hoosier said:

I felt it was selfish and angry myself. I do however agree that there are parties on both sides that contribute to this thinking. Blame Madison Ave perhaps.

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And the mark of a real, mature and understanding Man is that he rises above that and continues to behave in a gentlemanly and generous way. Something tells me that today's members will be tomorrow's lonely recluses.

Of course after reading the group's website "About us" area, I'm too old to join anyway.

To each his own, it's just not for me.

Regards,

Frank

I believe there has to be a way to be a Gentlemanly bachelor and respect women as well. Seems simple. I think many of the people in this movement have had some seriously bad experiences. B&B is indeed a place for primarily Gentlemen and has been a true compass on how one should conduct themselves indeed.

I'm confused.
Count me out.

professorchaos said:

Neither society in general nor women in particular are the problem. The only power others have over you is that which you give them. Rather, the problem is mass group think that encourages conformity and (tries) to punish individuality.

Being a free thinking individual should necessarily entail living a thoughtful life on your own terms.

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High five to that!

Toothpick said:

I'm confused.

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I agree....I love Tabac

Sounds like an excuse to continue living in mommy's basement to me.

Truth be told the rise of feminism is directly related to how crappy men treated women. To suddenly absolve yourself of all responsibility seems to be the typical agenda for most young men these days. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with egotistical women who think they run the show in a relationship... but I also don't agree with men who think they are mature enough to be in a relationship while still acting like a boy. When you enter a relationship, you do so under the mutual agreement that you make decisions that is of the best interests of both parties. Failure to do so makes it a self centered relationship that caters to selfish and arrogant individual.

OK, I just quickly browsed the homepage of MGTOW.

#1- I can totally do without the phallic, double meaning, insignia of the "group"




Secondly, it is rather obvious that the person who wrote that blog is upset about his lot in life. His girlfriend/wife, whomever may have left him, he seems to be upset about having to work for a living, the church not telling him that he is perfect, but rather asking to give more of himself, etc etc.

The strategy he has chosen is to embrace his self centered attitudes and wrap them up in some sort of philosophical flag of masculine defiance.


As a man married 21 years, things aren't always peachy. Often times quite far from peachy. One's spouse may lash out at times and criticize some things about YOU. Well, that isn't always pleasant, is it? But if you really wanted to MAN UP, perhaps you should stop and think that some of this criticism may be well warranted. Perhaps you are a self centered pain in the *** and you need someone to remind you of that so you can try and work on being better about that. You're not perfect, and neither is your significant other, no matter who they may be. That's life, That's also part of what it means to be in a serious relationship. You have to work on yourself, and you have to learn to accept the weaknesses of others.

I have a message for the MGTOW founder:

It's merely a rationalization to justify a chosen behavior or behaviors (poor or otherwise) to anyone who may cast a reproachful eye or dare to offer a word of criticism. When one sets their own standards with no regard to others or to established standards then they no longer need to justify their behavior to anyone and they convince themselves it's freedom. They, in a sense, become their own god and living by their own self-established standards becomes the highest virtue for which they commend themselves. It's nothing but bald-faced self righteousness and has nothing to do with women, society or masculinity.

I had a similar impression to Seraphim, after reading visiting the page. It seems the founder and some of the members had relationships that ended on really bad notes. This philosophy seems to be their way of coping. I personally don't see it being very healthy.

The various Men's Rights Movements out there realy range far and wide. While I sorta understand what this one is saying, I also reserve my own right to fire your butt if your "self-ownership and deciding your own path in life" means you can't get your Harley to run and keep missing work!

I ascribe mostly to the Art of Manliness, I think they are the most gentlemanly site out there and are certainly pro-family. Would a feminist agree with what they say? Perhaps. Does holding open a door, asking the father for permission to marry, or dealing with the outdoor work while she handles indoor cleaning threaten a feminist or demean women in general? I don't think so, but I can certainly see who some might object. I think we can hold on to some traditions while still letting women vote, go to school, and play golf at the club.