Honing Routine - A Question for the Honemeisters

[professorchaos]

I have been playing around with honing my own straights for a while now and may have finally gotten the hang of it. From a whole lot of reading and even more experimentation, I have arrived at the following progression. Edges from it give me very nice, close and comfortable shaves. It has turned even a few EBay specials into real studs. Since I did not expect it to take so much work, so many strokes, I wonder if I am taking off too much metal. The edges have been holding up for a few weeks now, so I don't think I am over-honing. So I wonder what the honemeisters think, is this progression too much? Can I cut down on the strokes on any particular stone and still end up with a nice edge?

10-20 round-trips on DMT 1200
25-50 round-trips on Belgian Blue (half with slurry, half without)
25 round-trips on Coticule without slurry
25 round-trips on 12k Chinese
15 round-trips on .5 chromium oxide pasted strop

[randydance062449]

The shave is the real test of any honing effort. The number of laps on the 1200 and the blue really depends on the condition of the edge when you begin and the steel. It will very a lot.

The rest of the laps seem to be on the conservative side. It is not unusual for me to use 100 laps on the Chinese 12K after the Norton 8K. But... I also never mix the coticule and the 12k.

15 laps on the 0.5 chrome Ox is minimal. My numbers are 20-50 depending ....

The good point is that your approaching this in a conservative fashion. Good work and keep experimenting!

[mparker762]

For new Dovo razors it may not take much work to get them shaving well. For ebay razors all bets are off because their condition can vary so much, even for ones in good shape the steel will be old and oxidized at the surface and you'll have to get past that to get an edge. You just have to do whatever it takes for that first honing - after that it's easy to keep them going, but that first honing can sometimes be a bear.

[FloppyShoes]

For new Dovo razors it may not take much work to get them shaving well. For ebay razors all bets are off because their condition can vary so much, even for ones in good shape the steel will be old and oxidized at the surface and you'll have to get past that to get an edge. You just have to do whatever it takes for that first honing - after that it's easy to keep them going, but that first honing can sometimes be a bear.

+1
I would add that once you get a good, fresh edge, there should be no need to use the DMT 1200 unless you ding it.

[professorchaos]

That first honing can sometimes be a bear.

The first blade I tried to hone was slightly warped. Trying to get an edge on it nearly drove me mad. Then I put it down and moved on.

I would add that once you get a good, fresh edge, there should be no need to use the DMT 1200 unless you ding it.

I can skip the 1200 unless the blade is chipped or has no bevel?

I am still surprised about the amount of honing that goes into sharpening a straight. These natural stones are a lot of fun to use but I certainly did not anticipate how much time and effort this took!

[Thebigspendur]

As others have said there is no formula to sharpen a straight because it will depend on the condition of the razor and even if you took a particular honing routine and had ten people do it to ten identical razors you would probably get ten different results.

In general you should do the least you have to to get the desired results. For new razors unless they are really dull you should never have to use anything below 8K. In general once off the coticule you should have the perfect edge. The CrO I would use instead of the coticule so its a choice thing there.

For Eboy specials all bets are off because various techniques and/or hones may have to be used and you may have to go back and forth between hones to get the result. You will also find that certain razors seem to work better with certain hones which is why many of us have an arsenal of hones.

[heavydutysg135]

I have been playing around with honing my own straights for a while now and may have finally gotten the hang of it. From a whole lot of reading and even more experimentation, I have arrived at the following progression. Edges from it give me very nice, close and comfortable shaves. It has turned even a few EBay specials into real studs. Since I did not expect it to take so much work, so many strokes, I wonder if I am taking off too much metal. The edges have been holding up for a few weeks now, so I don't think I am over-honing. So I wonder what the honemeisters think, is this progression too much? Can I cut down on the strokes on any particular stone and still end up with a nice edge?

10-20 round-trips on DMT 1200
25-50 round-trips on Belgian Blue (half with slurry, half without)
25 round-trips on Coticule without slurry
25 round-trips on 12k Chinese
15 round-trips on .5 chromium oxide pasted strop

You might not need any work on the DMT 1200 and you might need a lot more than 20 passes depending on the razor. Basically the razor should be really sharp before moving on to the slow cutting natural belgians. 25-50 passes has never been sufficient for me to remove the scratch pattern of the DMT 1200 which is why I use a Norton 4K for about 50 passes before moving on to the blue. Many people do go straight to the blue off the DMT-E, but I would recommend more work on the blue (at least 50-100 passes with heavy slurry). I would also bump up the number of passes on the Coticule to at least 50 and also bump up the number of passes on the Chinese 12K to at least 50 as well.

[professorchaos]

You might not need any work on the DMT 1200 and you might need a lot more than 20 passes depending on the razor. Basically the razor should be really sharp before moving on to the slow cutting natural belgians. 25-50 passes has never been sufficient for me to remove the scratch pattern of the DMT 1200 which is why I use a Norton 4K for about 50 passes before moving on to the blue. Many people do go straight to the blue off the DMT-E, but I would recommend more work on the blue (at least 50-100 passes with heavy slurry). I would also bump up the number of passes on the Coticule to at least 50 and also bump up the number of passes on the Chinese 12K to at least 50 as well.

So assuming I have a new razor which is sharp, but not shaving sharp, I would want to start on the Belgian Blue or the Coticule? With EBay specials and razors that have no bevel, I have been keeping them on the 1200 until I can see the new bevel with a 30x loupe. Only then do they progress to the Blue.

Part of my issue is determining sharpness. The HHT does not work for me - it is just too fine. I have been relying on the TNT and TPT (which I am still refining) to gauge how the edge progresses.

BTW, your Coticule Chronicles thread over at SRP really helped me transistion from razors that seemed sharp and shaved poorly to razors that are sharp and shave well.

For Eboy specials all bets are off because various techniques and/or hones may have to be used and you may have to go back and forth between hones to get the result. You will also find that certain razors seem to work better with certain hones which is why many of us have an arsenal of hones.

Another shaving addiction! How fun. So where do we pick up the Tam O'Shanter and Water of Ayr hones? In all seriousness, I have found that some razors like diamond pastes better than chromium oxide and visa versa. Dovo carbon razors are fine of the .25 diamond but TIs are too rough, they really like the .5 chromium oxide.

[netsurfr]

In general you should do the least you have to to get the desired results. For new razors unless they are really dull you should never have to use anything below 8K. In general once off the coticule you should have the perfect edge. The CrO I would use instead of the coticule so its a choice thing there.

+1 I'll put my 2 cents in also and say that unless you have done something really nasty to the blade, 8K should be adequate for a blade that just needs touching up. At most, you might need 3-5 strokes on the 4K if you don't seem to be getting the results you need on the 8K in a reasonable number of passes.

[heavydutysg135]

So assuming I have a new razor which is sharp, but not shaving sharp, I would want to start on the Belgian Blue or the Coticule? With EBay specials and razors that have no bevel, I have been keeping them on the 1200 until I can see the new bevel with a 30x loupe. Only then do they progress to the Blue.

Read this thread, especially the section on Edge uniformity tests and double bevels:http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31640. For a new razor color the edge with a permanent marker and give the razor a few passes on the yellow coticule. If the marker is completely removed at the angle that you want to hone at every time in the future (no tape or 1 piece of tape) then just give the razor 100 passes on the yellow coticule and see how it shaves; that very well could be enough. If you have a double bevel then you will need to re-establish it to the angle that you want with the DMT before moving to the belgians. Use the permanent marker test or microscope to see when you are ready to move on. As I said in the thread, the reason why you can run into issues with double bevels on new razors is that new razor manufacturers will frequently hone the razor with the spine lifted a slight amount so that when they sell the razor it will have no hone wear. The thread that I gave you should explain everything

Part of my issue is determining sharpness. The HHT does not work for me - it is just too fine. I have been relying on the TNT and TPT (which I am still refining) to gauge how the edge progresses.

I am making a honing video this Sunday at my straight razor get together in Southern California which should explain a lot of what I consider the fundamentals. Look for it in the near future.

[professorchaos]

Thanks for the input gentlemen! Based on your it, I took a new Wapi which didn't pass the TNT. Gave it 100 passes on the blue, 100 on the coticule and 50 on the chromium oxide. FANTASTIC SHAVE! Smooth like butter

Then I took a W&B I have been restoring and started honing on the 1200. Using the permenant marker test it quickly became clear that it is going to take hundreds (possibly) of passes even though it bevel looks straight.

So again, many thanks!

[heavydutysg135]

Thanks for the input gentlemen! Based on your it, I took a new Wapi which didn't pass the TNT. Gave it 100 passes on the blue, 100 on the coticule and 50 on the chromium oxide. FANTASTIC SHAVE! Smooth like butter

Then I took a W&B I have been restoring and started honing on the 1200. Using the permenant marker test it quickly became clear that it is going to take hundreds (possibly) of passes even though it bevel looks straight.

So again, many thanks!

Sounds great! If the W&B is a full wedge or thick quarter hollow then you might want to consider taping the spine throughout the honing process (and for future touch-ups) because they can sometimes take a LOT of hone wear in the spine before you get it to take an edge on the low grits. Either way, you definately could be looking at several hundred passes on the 1200 grit before it is ready for the polishing stones.

[professorchaos]

Sounds great! If the W&B is a full wedge or thick quarter hollow then you might want to consider taping the spine throughout the honing process (and for future touch-ups) because they can sometimes take a LOT of hone wear in the spine before you get it to take an edge on the low grits. Either way, you definately could be looking at several hundred passes on the 1200 grit before it is ready for the polishing stones.

It is not a wedge, might be a quarter hollow. I will tape the spine - I spent a lot of time cleaning it up, I would hate to grind the spine down. One question, though...how does taping the spine durning honing affect stropping?

[randydance062449]

Not one bit. I use one layer of electrical tape for all honing and have no problems with stropping.