My second hone ID thread

So I picked this up out of a box at a flea market. Guy wanted the outrageous sum of $2. What the heck haven't lapped a stone in a while. Here are the pictures of it lapped.











So it was caked in oil (surprise, surprise) I've lapped it all off as there was so pretty nice gouges on the edges and the one end had quite a slope. Other than that it was reasonable. It lapped slightly harder than a Coticule.

The honed my lite "testing" Dovo on it tonight. The Dovo came into the stone with a very shavable Norton 8K edge.

First go was 20 laps water only. Had kind of a mild silty/fine gritty sensation. Looking at the edge under my 30x Loupe there was no change in the 8K scratch pattern.

I then slurried it, used the "standard" milky slurry one might use with a Coticule dilocut. Did some blade weight circles, then X-strokes, diluted the slurry down to water over about five dilutions and then did circles on water only followed by 20-30 X-strokes. The loupe now showed a scratch pattern I've never seen before. Not to suggest that it's a Japanese hone but the only word I could come up with was hazy. There were no scratches like you see off of the higher grit hones (grit striations, for lack of a better term). Honing on slurry and water only had minimal feedback in terms of grit, the razor made no sound, the stone feels firm but soft (oxymoron anyone?). It felt less gritty than my small hard Coti and about the same as my La Grise.

I really didn't think this hone would be for anything more than my pocket knives but after I saw this I stropped it 40 times on felt then 50 times on leather. Got a "ready to shave" HHT (relative test so not really applicable if you're not me, which you aren't so I'll leave it at that). Did a quick confirmation swipe on my leg and it shaved very very well.

So, does anyone know what it is? Part of me doesn't want to know, especially if it's one of those rocks that aren't really for razors as I'm hopeful this might be a new addition to the hone pile I'm starting to amass (my wife has started to hate rocks). The other part (the part starting this thread) can't stand not knowing!

I'll test shave the razor tomorrow and let you all know how it went, keeping in mind I didn't really do a full hone job as I figured this rock was just going to trash my edge.

Looking forward to hearing what you fine gentleman think it might be.

More research and I'm leaning toward Hindostan.

Although I'm not seeing the banding I would have expected to see.

mhhh....i think that the Tidal Layers should be visible on Hindostans, sometimes wider sometimes smaller...
more on tidal rhythmites and Hindostan Stones can be found here:
http://igs.indiana.edu/FossilsAndTime/Tidal.cfm

and here:
http://www.colby.edu/geology/RAG_356/TessierEtAl_1995.pdf


I dont know what it is right now...check this SRP Thread its interesting...
http://straightrazorplace.com/hones/77284-hindostan-hone.html


Here you can see the layering or "tidal rhythmites"

You requested some daylight pictures in another thread, I'm at work right now but I'll snap some pictures outside when I get home. Although it's over cast today it should give a better indication of colour.

I'm also going to pick up some Simple Green today and soak it to clean it up a little better.

I may have also forgotten to mention that looking at it on a low angle shows sparkly bits in the stone. There isn't many as it the surface doesn't shimmer but there are flecks that sparkle. Perhaps this helps rule certain stones out and rule some in.

I spent some down time this morning going through the SRP links that Neil Miller posted and was hoping they would make a confident ID possible, but they didn't.

So hopefully better lighted pictures, a shave test, and a soak in simple green to clean off the oil from the other surfaces will help.

Thank you for your reply. Be had this stone for weeks and only now does it's ID intrigue me.

I look forward to adding some more information by the end of today.

Ok so I decided to take the test razor back to the hone. No reason to waste perfectly good whiskers on a razor that wasn't honed with intent to shave. I brought the 8K edge back and then ran through some circles on slurry, the circles on water, then x-strokes on water, then 60 x-strokes on Smiths honing solution.

Observations: this stone is harder than I first indicated as a Chinese River slurry stone did not raise slurry as easily as on my other naturals (Coti's, Escher). It was slightly easier to raise slurry on than my Lily White Washita. It is also porous as I could watch water soak into it, after a night and day of soaking in water.

The Shave: cut well with a guillotine stroke, but was not as keen as the 8K edge. I still had slight stubble after the shave and had a mild irritation all over my face, especially on my cheeks (where I got the closest cut). The lather was rich, thick and slick.

I took some more pictures in natural light (it's over cast). I did notice that the edge of the hone has striations that are in line with those observed on other Hindostan hones in other threads. I am now soaking the hone Simple Green.

Side (dry)



Side (wet)



Top (dry)



Top (wet)



Top with slurry

Yeah iam quite shure its a Hindostan now you showed the daylight pictures and the striations....

Simple green will push the process and the layer will be better visible...

So having read just about every post on these hones am I wasting my time with it as a finisher? Are there any qualities I should look for that might indicate its ability as a finisher?

driftwood said:

So having read just about every post on these hones am I wasting my time with it as a finisher? Are there any qualities I should look for that might indicate its ability as a finisher?

Click to expand...

I am shure you read Neils Comment here, so Neil is very experienced with his stones...for me this is a statement concerning gritsize and quality....

http://straightrazorplace.com/hones/77284-hindostan-hone-2.html#post885198

Mine is something between a 6-8k stone so i would talk about a pre finishing stone....

Wasting time is the question here, are you or will you be comfortable with the shave from the Hindostan ? If yes you didnt waste any time!!

...if no, the question might be if you can do anything better....if there are no more options available to create a better edge i would say your Hindostan is no finishing stone...but it could be well used in a natural progression...

Iam quite shure you will not have a comparable shave you might get with your thuringian stone ;-)

Doorsch said:

I am shure you read Neils Comment here, so Neil is very experienced with his stones...fir me this is a statement concerning gritsize and quality....

http://straightrazorplace.com/hones/77284-hindostan-hone-2.html#post885198

Mine is something between a 6-8k stone so i would talk about a pre finishing stone....

Wasting time is the question here, are you or will you be comfortable with the shave from the Hindostan ? If yes you didnt waste any tim!!

...if no the question might be if you can do anything better....if there are no more options available to create a better edge i would say your Hindostan is no finishing stone...but it could be well used in a natural progression...

Click to expand...

One can always do better

I did read Neil's comments in that thread, but I must go back and re-read it a few more times.

I should have worded it differently - is there any way this rock could be pushed into finish stone territory? What I was driving at was whether with enough technique, patience and persistence it could provide an edge capable of, at minimum, an acceptable shave.

I think that it could. It was a quick hone job tonight, the next attempt will be more laps, on slurry, water, oil.

Are these particular specimens known to be slow?

I must say I'm very much enjoying this conversation!

Doorsch said:

Iam quite shure you will not have a comparable shave you might get with your thuringian stone ;-)

Click to expand...

No argument here, you are 100% correct.

How about a Magog?

(London is just over 500 miles from Lake Memphremagog)

P.S. Turns out Hindostan Falls Indiana is slightly closer...

I saw that name mentioned, but figured I'd exhaust the possibility that it was a Hindostan before venturing down that road. The Magog hone is on my list of hones to research now though. Until today I wasn't aware Canada produced any natural hones of interest to razor users.

The Magog is a tricky thing, nothing you can research that easy...the Island and the Whetstonebeds are under water too certain times which was mentioned in older Literature. This means that it could be thinking on today that youll never Reach the beds....also its a kind of "private property" you could only visit with a caretaker...

So if you need more information or want to go there please hit me back again on this...

There is also only one piece of literature talking about colouration of the Magog stone which says "grayish white" or "yellowish brown" very abundant. Nothing more...

Check this one out, if you didnt already ;-)
http://straightrazorplace.com/hones/89228-history-magog-oilstone.html

Or here;
http://www.razorandstone.com/showthread.php?2326-Natural-Stone-for-Bevel-Work

Here:
http://www.razorandstone.com/showthread.php?2665-North-American-Natural-Hones

driftwood said:

One can always do better
I should have worded it differently - is there any way this rock could be pushed into finish stone territory? What I was driving at was whether with enough technique, patience and persistence it could provide an edge capable of, at minimum, an acceptable shave.

I think that it could. It was a quick hone job tonight, the next attempt will be more laps, on slurry, water, oil.

Are these particular specimens known to be slow?

Click to expand...

I really read it like you described it in the beginning here and i understood that you want to push the Edge, so you should try the things mentioned (more laps, use with oils). I think the stones are quite slow...
but what comes after? If this is not working there are not that more options...so please try the mentioned and keep us updated!!

So where does the "Canada Stone" hail from, which seems to be identical to the Hindostan? This would appear to be of a later vintage than the Magog stone, the latter of which having been further buried under water by damming in the Sherbrooke, QC area if I'm not mistaken. Also curious is the preponderance of Hindostans sold to the British market back in the day. Has anyone traced the sales route that led these stones from Indiana to Britain? Might it not have been easiest to send them via Canada at the time, through the Great Lakes and the Saint Lawrence Seaway? If this was the case, then it might explain the alleged close similarity between the "Canada Stone" and the Hindostan, as they would have been one and the same--Hindostans. In any case, with such oil-stones, we are not talking about advanced finishers as currently considered.

Alum of Potash said:

So where does the "Canada Stone" hail from, which seems to be identical to the Hindostan? This would appear to be of a later vintage than the Magog stone, the latter of which having been further buried under water by damming in the Sherbrooke, QC area if I'm not mistaken. Also curious is the preponderance of Hindostans sold to the British market back in the day. Has anyone traced the sales route that led these stones from Indiana to Britain? Might it not have been easiest to send them via Canada at the time, through the Great Lakes and the Saint Lawrence Seaway? If this was the case, then it might explain the alleged close similarity between the "Canada Stone" and the Hindostan, as they would have been one and the same--Hindostans. In any case, with such oil-stones, we are not talking about advanced finishers as currently considered.

Click to expand...

Good idea Alan, never thought about it tracking the old routes...anything you found already on this ?

After an afternoon and an overnight soak my pretty amber/tan/brown stone has lightened up considerably and is now beige/grey! First time using simple green and I'm sold. I'll take a new picture of two this evening (after making some chili for a chili cook off).

I'm going to push the edge with this stone and see how far I can go. As for where to go with the edge after this stone, I have four choices: small hard Coti (unknown vein, maybe I'll post pictures in here), What I believe to be a la Grise (it was purchased new), an Escher (still new to me), and a Sigma 13K. Once I'm done with the Hindostan I'll try all four options.

I should also try the Hindo on another razor along the way as well, something with a reliably good edge. The fun of honing eh!

You should try the Escher after the Hindostan i think youll get a comfortable result...and for shure try out all the others ;-)

How are you liking the SP13? I've shaved off mine a few times. Very pleasant shave for a synth stone finish in my opinion. Makes me curious how much better the gukowhachamajigger20k is.