- Thread starter
- #21
And there is one less Walkin Horse 2.5" English Bridle in stock at WCS now....
Gee thanks OP...
Anytime ;p
Thank you Brian for those links- I'll start from the top!
Best Strops
- Thread starter Danielbz
- Start date
Anytime ;p
Thank you Brian for those links- I'll start from the top!
I am also not sure who you meant but my answer is free so.....
English Bridle is I think the most underrated of all the strop materials. It is tough, an excellent stropping material and inexpensive. It also responds very well to a light sanding- the strop gets better though they do also get less attractive. I think E.B. easily represents the best value of any strop material; with a wild guess, I would say it is 90% as good as horse hide (horse butt, not shell) but only 1/3 to 1/2 the cost.
One thing to note is that English Bridle is a little different then generic 'steer hide' in that E.B. is dyed and the surface is not quite as hard and smooth as steer hide. Steer hide is nice because it sands and repairs better than E.B. and will not change appearance nearly as much over time. Steer hide is also faster than E.B. although I have only seen a couple of pieces of each and that might not be true all the time.
Brian
English Bridle is I think the most underrated of all the strop materials. It is tough, an excellent stropping material and inexpensive. It also responds very well to a light sanding- the strop gets better though they do also get less attractive. I think E.B. easily represents the best value of any strop material; with a wild guess, I would say it is 90% as good as horse hide (horse butt, not shell) but only 1/3 to 1/2 the cost.
One thing to note is that English Bridle is a little different then generic 'steer hide' in that E.B. is dyed and the surface is not quite as hard and smooth as steer hide. Steer hide is nice because it sands and repairs better than E.B. and will not change appearance nearly as much over time. Steer hide is also faster than E.B. although I have only seen a couple of pieces of each and that might not be true all the time.
Brian
Just a little bit of a different opinion but Cordovan Shell is not that expensive from Kanoyama. A #3, which contains both a piece of beautiful shell as well as a suede type of pre- strop (not sure but I think that is shell also) is just over $100 and a great value IMO. Horween Cordovan Shell is generally considerably more expensive but part of the reason is that more entities have to make a profit from the same strop 
And of course we all have our opinions but while I agree that actually stropping on shell is wonderful, I find I can get a better edge with a lot fewer laps on actual horse hide rather than shell. I guess I am saying that my favorite strop regarding effect on the razor is horse hide (horse butt) rather than shell.
No insult or jab at you intended here, just discussing the subject at hand, and I respect your opinion of course. Also, I have never tried a piece of Horween shell and it is my understanding that that is considerably different than Kanoyama shell.
Brian (no, no, the other Brian )
And of course we all have our opinions but while I agree that actually stropping on shell is wonderful, I find I can get a better edge with a lot fewer laps on actual horse hide rather than shell. I guess I am saying that my favorite strop regarding effect on the razor is horse hide (horse butt) rather than shell.
No insult or jab at you intended here, just discussing the subject at hand, and I respect your opinion of course. Also, I have never tried a piece of Horween shell and it is my understanding that that is considerably different than Kanoyama shell.
Brian (no, no, the other Brian
)
Both Brians, I thank youse.
No insult taken at all BDF. I figure the reason they make strops from so many materials is we don't all want the same thing. It is entirely likely that our razors react differently to different stropping materials. YMMV applies to nearly everything in this hobby. Trying to compare Horween shell to Kanayama shell is really splitting hairs. They are very close. Even under the microscope they are close except for color.
They break in similarly getting smoother and creamier with time which is astounding when you consider how smooth they are to start. They even smell similar although the Horween puts out a bit more smell. (Side note! Could some cologne maker please bottle that smell!!) This all came as a shock to me that shell tanned and finished 14,000 miles from the Horween facility is so very similar. When you consider that cordovan was used extensively for strops back in the day and only in modern history did it find favor for high end shoes I find it interesting that both makers would arrive at such similar end points in their effort to make the perfect stropping surface.
They break in similarly getting smoother and creamier with time which is astounding when you consider how smooth they are to start. They even smell similar although the Horween puts out a bit more smell. (Side note! Could some cologne maker please bottle that smell!!) This all came as a shock to me that shell tanned and finished 14,000 miles from the Horween facility is so very similar. When you consider that cordovan was used extensively for strops back in the day and only in modern history did it find favor for high end shoes I find it interesting that both makers would arrive at such similar end points in their effort to make the perfect stropping surface.
If I had my arm twisted to recommend a strop, from the standpoint of sheer collectability, I think Kanayama strops are must haves. I have a #3 as a workhorse and a 90K as a "Sunday Strop". When Kanoyama-sensei passes, you can expect to see the prices on these go through the roof. We'll never see these again once he's gone, and they are indeed a fine, fine strop.
As a top performing heirloom quality strop, for my money it's Neil Miller shell cordovan. Perfection.
There are many other superb quality strops that will do the job just as well (I'm a huge fan of English Bridle leather). But getting there is half the fun. The pleasure of using a top tier strop can't be overstated. And most wet shavers are not the type to "make do".
As a top performing heirloom quality strop, for my money it's Neil Miller shell cordovan. Perfection.
There are many other superb quality strops that will do the job just as well (I'm a huge fan of English Bridle leather). But getting there is half the fun. The pleasure of using a top tier strop can't be overstated. And most wet shavers are not the type to "make do".
I popped for the 90K as well and for exactly the same reason. Didn't need it, didn't have any reason other than I wanted one from the master. Right with you on Neil Miller's shell as well. My newest strop is an extra long Neil shell strop that is incredibly high quality.
cant go wrong with a kanayama.. I have a TM, SRD Latigo, & custom Roo. Cant go wrong with whats already stated for stops.
Does a Kanayama "#3" mean a 3inch wide? I am a bit confused as too what the numbers like 8000 or 10000 means? This discussion is definitely a great thread. It was great looking into the artisans mentioned here by members.
The Kanayama #3 is 66mm wide which is about 2.6 inches. Here's more info:
http://yhst-27988581933240.stores.yahoo.net/kanoyama-cordovan-razor-strop-600mmx666006634.html
http://yhst-27988581933240.stores.yahoo.net/kanoyama-cordovan-razor-strop-600mmx666006634.html
- Thread starter
- #32
I have never put roo under the scope but I have a roo strop and will take a picture for you. In the meantime here is the thread where I put all the scope pictures of different materials.
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/411626-Comparing-leathers-and-second-components
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/411626-Comparing-leathers-and-second-components
I got my Kanayama #3 in the mail today and wow, I had no idea that it would be this nice. It's just as smooth as can be. It's about as close to effortless as I think you can get stropping a razor. Truly an absolute joy to use.
Congrats on the strop and glad to hear you like it. A Kanoyama is really an exceptional piece of material and as you say, a joy to use. Everybody should experience one of those things IMO.
Brian
Brian
- Thread starter
- #36
Thank you that would be awesome. What can you tell when looking at the strops under the scope?
That was mostly my pure curiosity. I got to looking when I developed my preference for flax linen over all other second components. It is interesting to me that different leathers can be so different under magnification. Everyone has their favorites and I was hoping to find some insights. Here is the Roo leather. Sorry to be so slow, but my shotgunning has had me out of the loop a bit.
The green one is of crox on cotton. I haven't used crox in a while, but it still makes for a cool pic.
- Thread starter
- #38
That is what fired my curiosity as well. The exact mechanism of what is happening is still not understood. A member here even posted SEM images and we still don't fully understand what the leather is doing for us. All we really know is it works and that different leathers perform differently, but pretty much all will give us a good shaving edge.
Well, I think we can back out what is happening by scaling the effect way up.
Suppose there was a leather belt driving a piece of machinery (common back in the days of steam and mills). Now suppose that a bolt loosened and backed out until the belt was rubbing against the belt. Now I think we would all agree that the bolt would be worn away by the abrasiveness of the leather belt. So we can say that leather WILL abrade steel albeit it not very aggressively or efficiently.
Now onto a straight razor being stropped. It is the identical function to the above example but greatly scaled down. But then again, only the spine and the extreme edge of the razor touch the strop so even a mild amount of abrasion will have a noticable and pronounced effect. That would also explain why stropping works well on a razor with a sharp 'V' that was established by honing but once the point of that 'V' is worn back even a slight amount, stropping is no longer effective in bringing a shaving edge back to a razor.
Look at the SEM images that Fuzzy Chops made at some intervals leading up to 1,000 laps on a strop. It is very clear that razor material is being removed and that there surface left on the razor is extremely smooth with none of the grooves associated with conventional honing (where each abrasive particle of the hone leaves a corresponding groove in the razor). This process also very well explains why stropping makes a razor so much soother than almost any abrasive save perhaps extremely fine synthetic abrasives (0.1 CBN yields a very nice shaving razor without stropping but 0.25 diamond does not, at least in my experience).
All of this is just my observation, Fuzzy Chops images and a little reasoning which I <think> is sound. It is certainly not proof or indisputable fact but it does seem to all fit together and make sense. [shrugs shoulders]
Brian
Suppose there was a leather belt driving a piece of machinery (common back in the days of steam and mills). Now suppose that a bolt loosened and backed out until the belt was rubbing against the belt. Now I think we would all agree that the bolt would be worn away by the abrasiveness of the leather belt. So we can say that leather WILL abrade steel albeit it not very aggressively or efficiently.
Now onto a straight razor being stropped. It is the identical function to the above example but greatly scaled down. But then again, only the spine and the extreme edge of the razor touch the strop so even a mild amount of abrasion will have a noticable and pronounced effect. That would also explain why stropping works well on a razor with a sharp 'V' that was established by honing but once the point of that 'V' is worn back even a slight amount, stropping is no longer effective in bringing a shaving edge back to a razor.
Look at the SEM images that Fuzzy Chops made at some intervals leading up to 1,000 laps on a strop. It is very clear that razor material is being removed and that there surface left on the razor is extremely smooth with none of the grooves associated with conventional honing (where each abrasive particle of the hone leaves a corresponding groove in the razor). This process also very well explains why stropping makes a razor so much soother than almost any abrasive save perhaps extremely fine synthetic abrasives (0.1 CBN yields a very nice shaving razor without stropping but 0.25 diamond does not, at least in my experience).
All of this is just my observation, Fuzzy Chops images and a little reasoning which I <think> is sound. It is certainly not proof or indisputable fact but it does seem to all fit together and make sense. [shrugs shoulders]
Brian
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