Less tugging alternatives to R41

Of all razors I have tried R41 gives the best shave with least irritation. However, it require me to soak the beard 10-15 (in shower) otherwise the shave will be painful and tugging. Sometimes I have not time for this, but still need a BBS face (the cyclops will leak in water if I am not having BBS face).

I am wondering if there could be any other razor still giving the same irritation-free shaves as R41, but requires less preparation.

This thread got me to consider Weber: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/414153-New-Weber-Bulldog-EISH! (looks like Weber is aggressive)
Then I am also considering Razorock Stealth once it is officially released.

If you love R41, how do you like those razors I am considering? I do not want comments from people not loving R41 as I surely love R41 and would want the same experience, but with less tugging. I know there might be none answering when it comes to the Stealth as very few have had the luck to own one.

Have you used other blades? When I shaved with DE, aside from prep and technique this was the largest variable. I got great results from a med prep, but I would have to prep extra well for an Astra.

It is tugging even with Feathers unless I soak well enough. I am using GSB as they are the smoothest and best working for me of all blades I tried.

What causes tugging?

Poor prep ( which seems not to be the case, or is it?).

A dull blade ( I'll trust you on that one too).

Wrong blade angle.


I think you might be going too steep ... While the steep angle, IMO drastically reduces the chances of irritation, you must know the limit.
I don't claim to be an expert, and some people have reported some tugging, especially during the first ( WTG), but IME that has never happened.
Short rapid strokes also help against tugging, that goes for all razors, not just the R41.

If you are using a shallow angle, disregard all I said, and again IMO, you shouldn't be having any tugging issues whatsoever, usually it is associated with an angle too steep.

Then you say this:

engblom said:

I am wondering if there could be any other razor still giving the same irritation-free shaves as R41, but requires less preparation.

Click to expand...

If you don't have the time to shave in the morning, you only have two choices. You can get up earlier or you can shave in the evening as many here do.
Prep is vital, again this goes for all razors, not just the R41. If you try to neglect this step, inevitably things will go wrong, especially with a R41.
Lather, beard hydration, etc ... absolutely vital things.

Good luck.

Try adding Noxzema into your pre-shave routine. http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...Think-I-Love-You?highlight=Noxzema+I+love+you

What most of the responses are saying is that tugging is solvable, not a permanent fixture. My gold standard shave is a BBS+ with that "Did I forget to load a blade?" feel.

The refinements I've used to achieve that include the advice above, plus slowing down the prep, selecting software for its effectiveness in beard softening, and while still very steep, adjusting my angle more or less steep ever so slightly to get that bladeless feel. Have you tried comparing your vegan and tallow soaps for reduced tugging? How about laying down a thick lather with something like the Plisson Synthetic and letting it soften the beard on the face a minute longer than you usually give it?

Shaving with an R41 is a conscious choice on which part of the shave isn't guaranteed. With most razors the shave has minimal tugging but both the BBS and calm post-shave skin can be elusive. With an R41 the BBS+ and totally calm skin is guaranteed, and it's the tugging that can show up with technical or prep shortcuts. With practice, the BBS+, totally calm skin, and a thoroughly enjoyable, albeit abbreviated two-pass only, shave is the norm with the R41.

When I had my R41 2013 it always tugged for me. Some areas it tugged more than others. Try a FaTip. It is very aggressive but smooth. I own a Joris Plisson which is a FaTip that they refinish and replate. I find it shaves just as close as a R41 2013 but much smoother.

I use an R41, but get no tugging at all. There's no reason why that can't be you.

Look at the recommendations from nuclearblast. Also, reconsider your shaving soap. With a razor like the R41, it's important to use a soap that has something like kaolin; this adds "slippiness" that makes shaves much smoother, without any tugging. I'd be willing to bet that your shaving soap doesn't have kaolin.

Before springing for a new razor, try a different soap (like Honeybee Soaps).

engblom,
I was in the same boat. Enjoyed the BBS+ shaves with the R41, but despised the tugging. I tried everything practical in terms of prep: long hot showers, different soaps (that I know are sleek), preshave oils, hot towels, long face leathering and waiting... Tried Feathers, PSI, 7O'clocks, Silver Blues... I'm not a newbie, started wet shaving with a DE close to 30 years ago. The only way I could get rid of the tugging was to use shallower angles, but it resulted in irritation. At the end I just gave up and sold the R41. From my experience (YMMV), I'm convinced that if your beard is as thick and dense as mine, there is no way to avoid the tugging. My solution was... Fatip Grande. I still get two-pass BBS shaves, perhaps not as long-lasting as wit the R41, but without the tugging. Fatip is quite aggresive also, but in a more "classical" way. This is the way I'm used to. Give it a sharp and reasonably smooth blade, and it slices like a hot knife through butter. Prep is still a factor, but I don't need to do anything unusual, i.e. I don't need to stay 20 minutes under hot water, use oils, add anything to my soaps etc.

engblom said:

Of all razors I have tried R41 gives the best shave with least irritation. However, it require me to soak the beard 10-15 (in shower) otherwise the shave will be painful and tugging. Sometimes I have not time for this, but still need a BBS face (the cyclops will leak in water if I am not having BBS face).

I am wondering if there could be any other razor still giving the same irritation-free shaves as R41, but requires less preparation.

Click to expand...

ATT H2.
I have the R41-11 and the R-41-13. I know that they are very popular razors (with good reason), but I find them quite rough. When I want a shave that is very similar but much smoother, I reach for my ATT H2, which is already loaded for my shave tomorrow morning.

muskus said:

engblom,
I was in the same boat. Enjoyed the BBS+ shaves with the R41, but despised the tugging. I tried everything practical in terms of prep: long hot showers, different soaps (that I know are sleek), preshave oils, hot towels, long face leathering and waiting... Tried Feathers, PSI, 7O'clocks, Silver Blues... I'm not a newbie, started wet shaving with a DE close to 30 years ago. The only way I could get rid of the tugging was to use shallower angles, but it resulted in irritation. At the end I just gave up and sold the R41. From my experience (YMMV), I'm convinced that if your beard is as thick and dense as mine, there is no way to avoid the tugging. My solution was... Fatip Grande. I still get two-pass BBS shaves, perhaps not as long-lasting as wit the R41, but without the tugging. Fatip is quite aggresive also, but in a more "classical" way. This is the way I'm used to. Give it a sharp and reasonably smooth blade, and it slices like a hot knife through butter. Prep is still a factor, but I don't need to do anything unusual, i.e. I don't need to stay 20 minutes under hot water, use oils, add anything to my soaps etc.

Click to expand...

Do you get any irritation with Fatip? What I really love with R41 is how I actually get less irritation than with most razors and still BBS+. R41 always tug some for me, but 15 minutes of hot shower reduce it to very stand-able.
I also, like you end up using a lot the very shallow angle because of the tugging. Especially my upper lip is impossible to shave unless I ride on the cap and barely let the blade touch.

DrAwkward said:

ATT H2.
I have the R41-11 and the R-41-13. I know that they are very popular razors (with good reason), but I find them quite rough. When I want a shave that is very similar but much smoother, I reach for my ATT H2, which is already loaded for my shave tomorrow morning.

Click to expand...

I have used several razors that are much smoother than R41, but some time after the shave I get irritation. Do you get any irritation out of H2?

I got some irritation from my H2. I also thought the points or teeth were sharp and may have caused some of the irritation. I prefer my H-1 plate.

poikkeus said:

I use an R41, but get no tugging at all. There's no reason why that can't be you.

Look at the recommendations from nuclearblast. Also, reconsider your shaving soap. With a razor like the R41, it's important to use a soap that has something like kaolin; this adds "slippiness" that makes shaves much smoother, without any tugging. I'd be willing to bet that your shaving soap doesn't have kaolin.

Before springing for a new razor, try a different soap (like Honeybee Soaps).

Click to expand...

Yes, I have tried both soaps with Kaolin and Bentonite. While clay is good in soap, it does not soften up the whiskers. More slippery soap protects the skin better and makes a more comfortable shave in that particular way, but tugging is not really reduced.

nuclearblast said:

If you don't have the time to shave in the morning, you only have two choices. You can get up earlier or you can shave in the evening as many here do.
Prep is vital, again this goes for all razors, not just the R41. If you try to neglect this step, inevitably things will go wrong, especially with a R41.
Lather, beard hydration, etc ... absolutely vital things.

Click to expand...

Sadly, it is not always possible to plan things in advance. Yesterday when I came home from work, my parents called me on the phone and said they were going to take their boat out to an island and wondered if I wanted to come along too. I hate to be at a beach unless I am able to use my snorkel, so I had about 5 minutes to give myself a BBS. The cyclops would not be tight against my face otherwise and water would enter them. There was not time for the 10-15 minutes of hot shower I actually need. That ended up with like about 2.5 minutes of prep (soap and hot water to soften) and 2.5 minutes of shaving (just the upper parts of my face, no time for the neck and the jaw). I managed to get that done and without irritation thanks to R41, but the tugging bothers.

Also during the summer, there is not an abundance of water for taking extra showers that long...

engblom said:

Do you get any irritation with Fatip? What I really love with R41 is how I actually get less irritation than with most razors and still BBS+. R41 always tug some for me, but 15 minutes of hot shower reduce it to very stand-able.
I also, like you end up using a lot the very shallow angle because of the tugging. Especially my upper lip is impossible to shave unless I ride on the cap and barely let the blade touch.

Click to expand...

I don't get more irritation from Fatip compared to R41. With the right blade inside, I get almost no sting from alcohol-based AS afterwards. The only difference in the quality of shaves that I found is that my BBS lasts couple of hours less.

engblom said:

I have used several razors that are much smoother than R41, but some time after the shave I get irritation. Do you get any irritation out of H2?

Click to expand...

No. Of corse, any razor can produce irritation on occasion. The H2 is certainly no more prone to that than the R41. Perhaps less so, given that it is more forgiving and provides useful audio feedback.

All good info given here. The one I think we'll help most is the short rapid strokes. Love my 2011 R41 as my daily..err every other day razor.