Stop at 3um

In another thread I had postulated that part of shave comfort comes from a certain degree of dullness.

Due to a lingering addiction to gazing at my edges under a scope, it had been difficult for me to refrain from always pursuing a flawless edge.

But I have at least temporarily overcome that temptation. And tonight I honed up two razors. Bevel set on a Harbor freight diamond plate, followed by a Shapton 1K and then a thorough going over with a new sheet of 3um lapping film, no PicoPaper, just flat on glass (I used the back of the Shapton, Ouch style). It was HHTing like a champ, so I left it at that.

I gave them a good stropping on the canvas followed by vintage horsehide and gave it a go.

The shave was excellent.

I had about four days growth, and it came off with ease. There was slightly more resistance than my usual ultra sharp edge, it certainly had a different on-skin feel than I am used to. But, the upside was the lack of fussy ess about the shave and after shave skin feel: zero irritation, zero weepers, zero aftershave burn.


Both the razors performed in a similar fashion.

So, I recommend further investigation along these lines. Natural stones have an innate limitation to the level of refinement attainable. The issue for fil users is the temptation to pursue the 1um, 0.5um, 0.01 and beyond edge.....And that will work fine, and have its own attributes. But for a more forgiving edge, try holding back on the refinement and you'll get a natural feeling edge without having to rub a rock.

Next thing you're gonna say is that a Norton 8k is all I'll ever need.

That did run through my mind...

But it is not "have to rub a rock" it is get to rub a rock!

My Norton 8k leaves outstanding finished edges on my kitchen knives. Ok, I can shave off it too but I do prefer something more.

Perhaps that is why many prefer Coticule edges. Many say that they are not as keen as some other methods but are very smooth and forgiving. I have a very hard La Verte coticule that will put as sharp an edge on a razor as anything else I have tried and others (basically all of the ones I have taken the time to fully figure out) that come damn close yet the smoothness is still there. So I'm not sure what my point is. I'll shut up now.......

Seraphim said:

In another thread I had postulated that part of shave comfort comes from a certain degree of dullness.

Due to a lingering addiction to gazing at my edges under a scope, it had been difficult for me to refrain from always pursuing a flawless edge.

But I have at least temporarily overcome that temptation. And tonight I honed up two razors. Bevel set on a Harbor freight diamond plate, followed by a Shapton 1K and then a thorough going over with a new sheet of 3um lapping film, no PicoPaper, just flat on glass (I used the back of the Shapton, Ouch style). It was HHTing like a champ, so I left it at that.

I gave them a good stropping on the canvas followed by vintage horsehide and gave it a go.

The shave was excellent.

I had about four days growth, and it came off with ease. There was slightly more resistance than my usual ultra sharp edge, it certainly had a different on-skin feel than I am used to. But, the upside was the lack of fussy ess about the shave and after shave skin feel: zero irritation, zero weepers, zero aftershave burn.


Both the razors performed in a similar fashion.

So, I recommend further investigation along these lines. Natural stones have an innate limitation to the level of refinement attainable. The issue for fil users is the temptation to pursue the 1um, 0.5um, 0.01 and beyond edge.....And that will work fine, and have its own attributes. But for a more forgiving edge, try holding back on the refinement and you'll get a natural feeling edge without having to rub a rock.

Click to expand...

So did you enjoy it more or less than what you get off 1u (and finer)? I've also shaved for a while off my naniwa 8k and found I could get nice shaves, but much prefer the edge I get off 1u film, mostly because there is less pulling, especially going ATG. You had less irritation/burn off the 3u than you usually do?

pmaster said:

So did you enjoy it more or less than what you get off 1u (and finer)? I've also shaved for a while off my naniwa 8k and found I could get nice shaves, but much prefer the edge I get off 1u film, mostly because there is less pulling, especially going ATG. You had less irritation/burn off the 3u than you usually do?

Click to expand...

I do enjoy the effortless glide that a 1um or less edge gives me. But it is also less forgiving of technique such as pressure or angle, which could lead to irritation. I'll have to give this type of edge a few more goes before deciding which I prefer.

12 hours later I'm still nicely BBS.

I'll see if I can get a couple of scope shots of the edge...

Ok I see what you mean. Its not easy to do such comparisons anyway. I noticed that even though a sharper edge may be less forgiving, I will often compensate on a less-sharper one by putting more pressure, which will usually translate in more irritation. That perfect balance is not always easy to reach.

Ive done 3 um with paper under. It was more comfortable than the 1 um but plenty sharp enough to take it all off.

edge used last night:

Say it with me...."coooh-tiih-kyewl"


Or whatever that pronunciation is..

Krodor said:

Say it with me...."coooh-tiih-kyewl"


Or whatever that pronunciation is..

Click to expand...

But why fuss with various dilutions, slurries, unicots, dilucots, etc etc, when one could simply hone on 3um film and be done with it?


I realize it's personal preference, but many want to simply get a great shaving edge and are not so enraptured with the artistic side of using stones.

Seraphim said:

But why fuss with various dilutions, slurries, unicots, dilucots, etc etc, when one could simply hone on 3um film and be done with it?


I realize it's personal preference, but many want to simply get a great shaving edge and are not so enraptured with the artistic side of using stones.

Click to expand...

Why fuss with "finishing" at all? It's the STROPPING that matters.

Seraphim said:

But why fuss with various dilutions, slurries, unicots, dilucots, etc etc, when one could simply hone on 3um film and be done with it?


I realize it's personal preference, but many want to simply get a great shaving edge and are not so enraptured with the artistic side of using stones.

Click to expand...

I mostly uses synthetic myself, which basically should bring similar results to film as they are built homogeneous.
Works for me, pops hair and of course shave. Yet, I found the edge of razors honed by some fellow member here, to be easier on my skin.
It could be that I am chasing small particules too hard (I typically finish on 1um Shapton stone) or it could be something else.
My theory about the natural stone, slurries, unicots, dilucots and stuff is that what makes the edge so smooth to the skin is the heterogeneous nature of the hone. There might be 2um grain, but there is also some other stuff holding those molecules together that might polish the edge of those 2um lines. So it might have wider scratch marks than my 1um ones, but they are more gentles.

That theory got me curious and I have been experiencing with finishing on natural crystals (ruby, gems, agate). The success under the microscope is great. I have scratch marks that appear thinner than the one left by CrOX (1/2 um), but I they still do not leave the nice gentle touch, that the ones honed by the Gentlemen from Houston give.
My guess there is that the crystals must be pretty homogeneous too, which might in fact confirm my theory.

I do enjoy the historical aspects of straight shaving. Just freakin cool to arrive at a better shave with a straight than any modern plastic wrapped thing and canned goo. I guess honing in the way it has been done for hundreds of years holds the same attraction for me.

Seraphim said:

But why fuss with various dilutions, slurries, unicots, dilucots, etc etc, when one could simply hone on 3um film and be done with it?


I realize it's personal preference, but many want to simply get a great shaving edge and are not so enraptured with the artistic side of using stones.

Click to expand...

No worries. Don't get me wrong, I've grabbed the ol' plastic for a touch up plenny of times. I just was thinking that that is how the coti gets the job done: not super-sharp, but does the trick.

Krodor said:

No worries. Don't get me wrong, I've grabbed the ol' plastic for a touch up plenny of times. I just was thinking that that is how the coti gets the job done: not super-sharp, but does the trick.

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Yes, that is my theory as well in regards to JNats (the only natural stone I've done any noodling about with)

Seraphim said:

Yes, that is my theory as well in regards to JNats (the only natural stone I've done any noodling about with)

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JNat is the only natural you have tried? I have a few cotis in the stable that aren't seeing much steel, if you'd like to prove to yourself that they aren't worth the trouble, either I wouldn't mind sending one and a slurry stone your way, to try out and maybe scope an edge. I have no scope, and would be interested to see the results.

Georgia Straight said:

JNat is the only natural you have tried? I have a few cotis in the stable that aren't seeing much steel, if you'd like to prove to yourself that they aren't worth the trouble, either I wouldn't mind sending one and a slurry stone your way, to try out and maybe scope an edge. I have no scope, and would be interested to see the results.

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Very kind offer, Frank. Y'all might end up trading rocks and paper.

Haha, can't imagine a film edge is much different than a synthetic, and I have some of those. Besides, I dun even know what pico paper is.