Pass 1 = Fine; Pass 2 = Terrible - help

[blueguitar322]

First pass N-S and it's great, I can't feel any stubble when I run my fingers in the same direction, no cuts, virtually no irritation.

Then I do a 2nd pass - be it E-W, W-E, S-N, or combination - and it's terrible. Razor burn like crazy on my neck, some mild irritation on my cheeks/chin. Rinse with cold water & aftershave, and 10 hours later it still hurts when I touch/stretch the skin.

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?

(Items: Murkur Classic, Mr. Taylor's, Vulfix badger brush. The lather I get looks like most of the pictures I see here, brush it on against the grain to lift the hairs for both passes)

[jmhUT]

Sounds to me like a razor angle issue. One can get away with pretty much anything once but subsequent passes will get you in trouble. If you are experiencing this problem independent of grain approach I'd say you just have too much blade on the skin. Begin your stroke with the razor head, not the safety bar, against your face. The handle should be parallel to the floor. Allow the weight of the razor to initiate the downward stroke and rotate the razor head downard until you hear, not feel, the first wishers cut. That is your angle, continue with short strokes though the end of the pass.
Cheers,
Jeff

[guenron]

Tell us more.. Do you bother to relather for your second pass or do you go commando? Any other secrets of your prep?

[ouch]

You're obviously suffering from what we like to refer to as the "odd/even" syndrome. I would suggest a third pass, which should be just fine.

[TheChefs]

I had the same problem on the accross the grain pass and that was because the blade angle was wrong and I was applying too much pressure. It's a lot harder to control the angle and let the weight of the razors weight do the job on W-E and E-W passes. Because of that I've not attempted S-N pass. I'm getting better at the W-E/E-W passes.

[ada8356]

Without knowing more, this may be a wasted point but:

before the second pass, splash some more warm water on the face and relather. Make sure to go real easy on the 2nd pass and watch the angle... the angle part gets tougher when you're not going straight down.

[blueguitar322]

Sorry I forgot to add: yes I do wash with hot water before my second pass. And yes, I most definately relather - same amount and consistency as before. The lather is a pretty good consistency - I could hold some foam upside down and it would retain its form. I put enough shaving cream on so that I can't see my skin through it, but not really much more than that...

I guess it's gotta be an angle thing. Any less steep of an angle and I feel like I'm shaving over the cream and missing the whiskers entirely. At least on the N-S passes it feels similar to my Mach 3 (I only did one pass with that); is this usual or not?

I tried the even/odd thing with two N-S and the third S-N but that didn't seem to work

(just kidding )

I'm not gonna do a second pass Tues am but I'll try to get better with the angle on Wed.

[NMMB]

I'm not sure why, but I blame pressure... I would suggest using a grip such as suggested by Kyle recently (at the end of the handle) to see if that helps... it should allow you to acheive the correct angle(s) while using very little pressure... though, it does take a littel while to get used to this grip.

[JMT]

rotate the razor head downard until you hear, not feel, the first whiskers cut. That is your angle, Cheers,
Jeff

This is very important. Turn the faucet off and listen for the whiskers being cut. When you hear it you've found your angle. In a perfect world you won't feel the hair being cut.

[Jonnybc]

This is very important. Turn the faucet off and listen for the whiskers being cut. When you hear it you've found your angle. In a perfect world you won't feel the hair being cut.

I use a sinkful of water so I don't have a tap running, ok it doesn't look too pretty but it works. I also used to listen to music in my dim and distant past, not anymore though.

[rtaylor61]

First and foremost, forget all of this N-S, S-N, E-W, W-E crap! FORGET IT! Rub your face and learn which direction your beard grows. Now, replace all of those DIRECTIONS with "with the grain, across the grain, and against the grain". This may mean that your all of your passes consist of various angles. I shave downward on my cheeks to the jawline. But once below the jawline and chin, things change. Moving from below my earline inward to my chin, I shave upward. But below my chin, I shave downward. That constitutes my with the grain pass. It's not a complicated thing, but it requires understanding the direction in which your beard grows. Figure that out, and then shave with the grain, across the grain and finally, against the grain.

Randy

[AJS]

You have received some very good advice so far, so there is very little I can add. Suffice to say I had similiar problems going across the grain. I found that trying to hold the razor up whilst still using little to no pressure on the stroke to be highly counter intuitive, add trying to maintain the correct angle to the equation and you have a recipe for disaster. Trying to hold the razor firmly in place means that you start adding pressure and this, I am sure is at least partly responsible for your razor burn, trying to keep the optimum angle whilst keeping a death grip on your razor is never easy either.
So, what can be done? Kyles recent advice about holding the razor at the very base using only two or three fingers is excellent, but as someone else pointed out may take a little while to get used to. If you use this grip on a cross grain pass, try holding the razor with your thumb and middle finger and then rest the main shaft on your index finger. This way you are offering enough support for the razor without adding any extra pressure.
There is something else you can do, it is something I have tried but I have been loathe to mention it up to this point because it shows just how bad my obsession with shaving has become. I recently had problems with muscular degeneration in my right hand and arm so I started using these with nothing more to occupy my time I also started using them on my left hand (my shaving hand) as well. The improvement was phenomenal. It improved my coordination and allowed me to develop a much surer, more confident and at the same time more delicate touch which saw a tremendous improvement in my shaving form. Now the idea of excercises especially for shaving seemed as patently ridiculous to me as I am sure it does to you, but you (and formerly me) have this problem and this may offer a solution.
If you are having problems with a S-N pass then I would hazard a guess that you need to spend more time reducing your beard before going all out for BBS.
Hope this helps in some way.

[TheChefs]

I agree with you about trying to hold the razor on the S-N pass, it's extreamly difficult, I even had a lot of difficulty getting hang of the E-W pass.

Also what kind of muscular degeneration have you got? I would advise that you get a wrist roller instead, you can progresivley increase weight and see the improvments, also unlike the gripmaster it works more muscles in your forarms, the inside and outside muscles, the gripmaster only works the inside part. It's a better overall excercise. Best of all you can make one on the cheap, there are lots of instructions on the internet how to make it, besicly pice of pipe with an attached strap or rope from which you hang weights.

Get one with a thicker diamater, instead of the really thin ones. They will work your grip harder. You simply roller the rope on and off the pipe. Very simple excercise.

Here's some links:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_sg...0&Go.y=0&Go=Go
http://www.gripstik.com/
http://www.strengthcats.com/BNSwristrollerstrap.htm

EDIT: I've forgot to add that excercising opposing muscles is a lot better for joint health.

[ouch]

Randy gives great advice- learn your beard. A simple N-S may be with the grain for the most part, but may be against the grain for portions of your beard.

If you're new to this whole thing, perhaps you should stick with a single pass until your face acclimates to your new hobby. Over-exuberance is your number one enemy. When I first started, I recall many people saying to me, "what the hell did you do to yourself?"

The second pass should also be performed with a lighter hand than the first. Keep at it.

[atxguy]

I had the same issues. +1 on the grip at the end of the handle and also less pressure. You probably also have to angle too steep. Think of trying to scrape a car window clear - too steep of an angle won't work and just makes you add more pressure. Those three issues fixed it for me and I am now WTG, XTG x2 (both ways), and ATG each morning. A little buffering and I am BBS with no irritation. Light pressure and good grip will go a long way and with the right angle you can get away with a lot.

[Optometrist]

I had the same issues. +1 on the grip at the end of the handle and also less pressure. You probably also have to angle too steep. Think of trying to scrape a car window clear - too steep of an angle won't work and just makes you add more pressure. Those three issues fixed it for me and I am now WTG, XTG x2 (both ways), and ATG each morning. A little buffering and I am BBS with no irritation. Light pressure and good grip will go a long way and with the right angle you can get away with a lot.

Congratulations on finding your solution. How did you get to this thread? It's nearly 6 years old!!!

[fccexpert]

The main thing you are doing wrong is the second pass; unnecessary and likely to cause irritation or worse. Concentrate on getting it right the first time and your problems will go away.