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Gillette Single Rings with British Patent Numbers

So if Gillette were prepared to establish a factory in France to create the illusion that they were working the French Patent while the actual shave items were made elsewhere, did they do the same thing in Germany .....or even in Leicester?
At this link: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/293610-What-Gillette/page2
mblakele speculates that the E to H prefixes may have been a labelling decision made by Montreal for their excess razors sent to England.

I take the "factory" claims with a large helping of salt. For example we have seen 1908 letterhead reading "Offices and factories: New York, Boston, Montreal, London, Berlin, Paris." Note the language: any of those could be an office, or a factory, or both. Whoever made these claims could have lied outright without much fear of consequences, but they seem to have preferred ambiguity and imagination.

For the Paris factory, McKibben states that Gillette was making at least some blades in Paris. The wiki page Gillette_Timeline cites Adams in his book Gillette, The Man and His Wonderful Shaving Device. I do not have that book myself, but apparently Adams says that a French court ruled that the Paris factory did not represent a substantial investment. Presumably that invalidated the patent in France, discouraging any further investment. On the other hand Achim has http://mr-razor.com/Rasierklingen/1913 Box of 10x12 Gillette Blades France.jpg showing what appear to be 1913 blades made in France.

The operation in Germany may have been even less substantial. For example Achim has an ad in German dated ca. 1911. It mentions the Gillette company of Boston and London, but not Germany. Instead the ad mentions a local organization: Grell, a Hamburg importer. That seems unusual if Gillette had a large factory in Germany.

But we know Montreal was real, and I think Leicester was real for as long as it lasted. Contemporary sources report that the company bought a seven-year lease on a substantial building, and planned to employ 250 workers at the outset with possible growth up to 500. But this lasted only a short time, from early 1909 until WWI made it impossible to operate. The plant was closed officially in 1916, about when that first lease would have expired and also when conscription in the UK would have made labor for non-essential goods almost impossible to find. It may have been relatively idle since 1914 when the war began and large numbers of men volunteered for service. The next UK plant did not open until ca. 1920, in Slough.
 
Thanks for the additional data Steve. The case is not always an indicator, as many are mismatched.

It is thought that when the British factory opened in Leicester in early 1909 that they adopted serial numbers from E to H and that each series ran concurrently. 1918 would be the date for a razor with the USA patent. Leicester closed in early 1916 but may have ceased production before that due to WW1.
The purpose of this project is to collect as much data as is available on the British patent single rings and then attempt to interpret any patterns that may emerge from that data to speculate on manufacture dates.

Cheers
George
 
I take the "factory" claims with a large helping of salt. For example we have seen 1908 letterhead reading "Offices and factories: New York, Boston, Montreal, London, Berlin, Paris." Note the language: any of those could be an office, or a factory, or both. Whoever made these claims could have lied outright without much fear of consequences, but they seem to have preferred ambiguity and imagination.

The plant was closed officially in 1916, about when that first lease would have expired and also when conscription in the UK would have made labor for non-essential goods almost impossible to find. It may have been relatively idle since 1914 when the war began and large numbers of men volunteered for service. The next UK plant did not open until ca. 1920, in Slough.

I recall seeing an ad which contained illustrations of the 5 supposed factories, but can't locate it at present. But I take your point. If France and Germany were making razors examples would have been found, unless they were using USA or British patents and prefixes such as F and G?

I think your assessment of Leicester's productive life being 1909 to 1914 is the percentage bet. But then another curiosity arises in that the Gillette diamond trade mark with the addition of "Known the World Over" has previously been considered to be only used in 1915/16. Of the data gathered so far, all series have only razors with either no trademark or the Diamond/KTWO.
 
I am the new guy on the block and, apart from having no idea of the process, I presume that creating a Wiki would be in the domain of senior members.

Also, I assumed that, as with the Canadian version, a Wiki would become appropriate only when it has been established that there is sufficient interest in the topic. So far there have been only a couple of razor data contributions.

Definitely nothing wrong with starting a wiki page to capture the table even while we're discussing it here, and anyone is more than welcome to do it even if you were the only one interested in the topic. I'll go ahead and start one for us with the information captured and update with a link.

I am noticing another anomoly with this data. Each series has examples of razors with no logo and the rest All have the double stamped gillette triangle with the "Known the World Over" underneath, This logo is thought to be used only in 1915/1916 when the Leicester factory was winding down or closed.

Where is this assumption coming from? Not saying you're wrong, it's just not something I can remember hearing before.

I am starting to wonder if the E series means "made in England, the F means "made in France and the G means "made in Germany". There is Gillette advertising showing substantial factories in France and Germany. If they produced razors, where have they gone? Or have they been sitting under our noses all along. The fly in the ointment for this speculation is once again the H series.

The main weirdness that that would present is why would those razors have been marked with the British patent information, then, rather than the relevant patents in those local jurisdictions if they'd actually been made there.


In retrospect the France factory was set up to off set some expiring patents and the space was shared with American Saddle company.The French courts had it closed after they realized Gillette intentions was to work the patent and not make any shave items.

To clarify this a bit as I understand it, the motivation for both the Paris and Berlin factories initially was that both countries had requirements that the patents be worked locally in order for the protection to be given in each country. The Paris plant wasn't "fake" -- renting out factory space wasn't (and still isn't) uncommon, in fact we know that the Canadian plant both occupied rented space for a time and rented space out to other companies -- it just may not have been a large enough investment for the French government's liking. I don't have a copy of Russel's book to see what exactly he says there, but does he give any timing around that ruling in France or on Gillette's presence there immediately after? For the period that we're looking at here, though, WWI would have probably disrupted any activity there regardless of any ruling about the "seriousness" of Gillette's works.
 
For the Paris factory, McKibben states that Gillette was making at least some blades in Paris. The wiki page Gillette_Timeline cites Adams in his book Gillette, The Man and His Wonderful Shaving Device. I do not have that book myself, but apparently Adams says that a French court ruled that the Paris factory did not represent a substantial investment. Presumably that invalidated the patent in France, discouraging any further investment.

I doubt that the French patent was invalidated, at the very least during the time period we'd be looking at here, since France continues to appear in the countries listed on the backs of the ABC Pocket Editions (and other similarly marked cases) throughout their run. Gillette may just have been forced to enlarge their operation there in response to that finding, assuming that Russel is a reliable source there.
 
I think your assessment of Leicester's productive life being 1909 to 1914 is the percentage bet. But then another curiosity arises in that the Gillette diamond trade mark with the addition of "Known the World Over" has previously been considered to be only used in 1915/16. Of the data gathered so far, all series have only razors with either no trademark or the Diamond/KTWO.

The phrase KTWO appears in print as early as 1909, along with the diamond logo which was introduced in 1908. But we want to know when the combination was first used to mark razors. At http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ot-Baseplate-stamp-used?p=5160102#post5160102 Porter suggested that razors might have been stamped with the diamond logo and KTWO as early as 1914. Achim has an ABC example with the full stamp, tentatively dated 1913 at http://mr-razor.com/Rasierer/Old Type/1913 ABC Pocket Edition 501 England.JPG.

Is it worth noting that UK advertising dropped "British Made" between 1915 and 1916? Compare http://mr-razor.com/Werbung/C 1915 Gillette Safety Razor.jpg to http://mr-razor.com/Werbung/C 1916 Standard Set England.jpg.
 
I doubt that the French patent was invalidated, at the very least during the time period we'd be looking at here, since France continues to appear in the countries listed on the backs of the ABC Pocket Editions (and other similarly marked cases) throughout their run. Gillette may just have been forced to enlarge their operation there in response to that finding, assuming that Russel is a reliable source there.

Good point, and we also have those 1913 blades from Achim marked "FRANCE". I would like to find some hard information about what went on in this period.
 
OK, I've modified the table format slightly and created this new page over on the wiki. I believe I've ported everything over as we have it, but I may have made some mistakes in the process of reformatting. Please have a look and either correct anything I broke, or for anyone who's not comfortable making changes just let me know and I'll take care of them.
 
I'd like to offer my sincerest thanks to Porter for creating the Wiki page. It is in a far better format than my table - experience and knowledge in action.

I was about to update my table to reflect my latest two acquistions from eBay:

$$_57 (11).jpg$$_57 (12).jpg

They were already on my table, both with the found label of Turkey. I have contacted the vendor and asked him if he could tell me where he acquired the razors - here's hoping.

Meanwhile I have, by looking through old posts, acquired some new and some additional data. Can you tell me please how to edit your Wiki? Hopefully the owners of the razors on the Wiki may also have a look and correct any errors or omissions that I may have made.

With regard to the KTWO being only on razors in 1915/16 I was going on this statement: "This baseplate stamp can be found on 1915/16 razors. Although, those were the only years I was able to find evidence of that type of baseplate stamps use." from here: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/348458-How-long-was-Gillette-quot-Diamond-w-Known-The-World-Over-quot-Baseplate-stamp-used?p=5160102#post5160102

With reference to:**
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by GBinOZ
I am starting to wonder if the E series means "made in England, the F means "made in France and the G means "made in Germany". There is Gillette advertising showing substantial factories in France and Germany. If they produced razors, where have they gone? Or have they been sitting under our noses all along. The fly in the ointment for this speculation is once again the H series.
The main weirdness that that would present is why would those razors have been marked with the British patent information, then, rather than the relevant patents in those local jurisdictions if they'd actually been made there. **

Don't we have a precedent with US (and possibly Canadian) razors bearing the British Patent? But then again, this was probably a ploy by Gillette to appear to satisfy British patent requirements by giving the illusion that they were making razors in Britian before Leicester came on line.

Thanks again to Porter for his creation of the Wiki - as he says on that site "
Hopefully, as we gather more examples, we'll be able to come to a more definitive conclusion."

Cheers
George
 
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To clarify this a bit as I understand it, the motivation for both the Paris and Berlin factories initially was that both countries had requirements that the patents be worked locally in order for the protection to be given in each country. The Paris plant wasn't "fake" -- renting out factory space wasn't (and still isn't) uncommon, in fact we know that the Canadian plant both occupied rented space for a time and rented space out to other companies -- it just may not have been a large enough investment for the French government's liking. I don't have a copy of Russel's book to see what exactly he says there, but does he give any timing around that ruling in France or on Gillette's presence there immediately after? For the period that we're looking at here, though, WWI would have probably disrupted any activity there regardless of any ruling about the "seriousness" of Gillette's works.
Patents have to be worked in each country, that means that the product/razors must be made in the country granting the patents within 3 years. This patent law did not apply to England though, so Gillette was safe over there. But it did apply in France and Gillette only had til the last day of 1905 to produce a razor and site.

Gillette exec Heilborn was in France negotiating with a French cutler to make the razors but the plans fell through after disagreement on terms and a October fire that wiped the machinery in the prospective French building for the razor making. Something had to be done fast, so Gillette sent executive Bittues to France in November to set up a quick production line in France so the patent could be worked before the end of year 1905 deadline. [just 2 months away].

Bittues looked at many buildings in France and settled on [old bike seat maker building] American Saddle Company on 24 Rue Cuachy rd. After a fast installation of machinery from the USA and some rented machinery from the Saddle company, Bittues managed to set up the first ever over seas Gillette factory by the end of the year
[ before the patent deadline].

A few years later [ 1906-09?] , the French courts found that Gillette established the factory only to serve as a Stopgap to protect the patent and was not a serious attempt to make razors and blades......A year after [ 1909?] Gillette moved out of the American saddle plant, Gillette then went with the original French cutler who they first picked to make the razors, but the patent was nullified by the French courts for lack of working.....it seems that they never had a patent after 1906.

Bittuets was then sent to Montreal in 1906 to start a factory there. He stayed on as manager director of Gillette Safety Razor Company of Canada, limited.

In 1907 Gillette director Heilborn was in Germany, he wrote back to Boston that the "Berlin market was growing and we should be manufacturing there soon as possible, and Berlin is a better site than Hamburg".....by the end of 1908 the Berlin factory was set up and making razors and blades. By the same time the finishing touches were being made to the Leicester England plant, by 1909 Gillete had 3 European factories. The London sales office was in charge of all the European business.

Russel Adams book " The Man and his wonderful shaving device" p68-69
 
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I'd like to offer my sincerest thanks to Porter for creating the Wiki page. It is in a far better format than my table - experience and knowledge in action.

I was about to update my table to reflect my latest two acquistions from eBay:

View attachment 433676View attachment 433677

They were already on my table, both with the found label of Turkey. I have contacted the vendor and asked him if he could tell me where he acquired the razors - here's hoping.

Meanwhile I have, by looking through old posts, acquired some new and some additional data. Can you tell me please how to edit your Wiki? Hopefully the owners of the razors on the Wiki may also have a look and correct any errors or omissions that I may have made.

With regard to the KTWO being only on razors in 1915/16 I was going on this statement: "This baseplate stamp can be found on 1915/16 razors. Although, those were the only years I was able to find evidence of that type of baseplate stamps use." from here: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/348458-How-long-was-Gillette-quot-Diamond-w-Known-The-World-Over-quot-Baseplate-stamp-used?p=5160102#post5160102

With reference to:**
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by GBinOZ
I am starting to wonder if the E series means "made in England, the F means "made in France and the G means "made in Germany". There is Gillette advertising showing substantial factories in France and Germany. If they produced razors, where have they gone? Or have they been sitting under our noses all along. The fly in the ointment for this speculation is once again the H series.
The main weirdness that that would present is why would those razors have been marked with the British patent information, then, rather than the relevant patents in those local jurisdictions if they'd actually been made there. **

Don't we have a precedent with US (and possibly Canadian) razors bearing the British Patent? But then again, this was probably a ploy by Gillette to appear to satisfy British patent requirements by giving the illusion that they were making razors in Britian before Leicester came on line.

Thanks again to Porter for his creation of the Wiki - as he says on that site "
Hopefully, as we gather more examples, we'll be able to come to a more definitive conclusion."

Cheers
George
If you want me to add some info let me know, or just PM the shave wiki team for help.http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Wiki_Caretakers
 
I am confused (again...or still). The American Button Co Pocket Editions Wiki states:
  • In 1908 Gillette contracted with the American Button Company, which manufactured this series of razors.
  • Production probably ceased ca. 1914-15.

So were the ABC Pocket Editions shown with the G prefix made in England or in the US for the British Market? If the later, shouldn't they be excluded for the same reason that we are not listing British Patented razors with A an B prefixes?
 
In 1907 Gillette director Heilborn was in Germany, he wrote back to Boston that the "Berlin market was growing and we should be manufacturing there soon as possible, and Berlin is a better site than Hamburg".....by the end of 1908 the Berlin factory was set up and making razors and blades.

This brings me back to my previous question - where are these German made razors and what marks would we look for to assess if we own one?
 
I doubt that the French patent was invalidated, at the very least during the time period we'd be looking at here, since France continues to appear in the countries listed on the backs of the ABC Pocket Editions (and other similarly marked cases) throughout their run. Gillette may just have been forced to enlarge their operation there in response to that finding, assuming that Russel is a reliable source there.

The French patent was nullified by the french courts for lack of working, a few years after Gillette established the razor plant in American Saddle company building.
[maybe in 1907-09]....assuming the Russel book ia a reliable source.
 
Patents have to be worked in each country, that means that the product/razors must be made in the country granting the patents within 3 years. This patent law did not apply to England though, so Gillette was safe over there. But it did apply in France and Gillette only had til the last day of 1905 to produce a razor and site.

Apparently there was a similar requirement in England, thanks to Lloyd George. And in Germany.

This newspaper article goes some way to explain Leicester: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=hSsbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xEgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1236,83846 from The Pittsburgh Press for 1 April 1908. I cannot copy the text, but it says that Gillette "has now acquired" an existing building, the Gordon (gin?) works in North Evington, Leicester for seven years with a purchase option. Initial employment will be 250 persons with prospects of 400-500. The article attributes this to Lloyd George's new patents act, which "provides that the continuing validity of foreign patents in Great Britain shall be contingent on their being worked in the United Kingdom."

Anyway we still do not know exactly when Gillette moved into these works, or when production started. It is easy to imagine that they got some blade-sharpening machines working within a month or two, but kept on with remodeling the building for another several months. And maybe claiming an English factory in that mid-to-late 1907 ad was just to keep the British patent office happy for a few months?

Edit: according to http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5150099 (The Advertiser, Adelaide SA, 12 June 1908) Germany had a similar foreign patent law. So Gillette had a very strong incentive to claim factories in both countries as quickly as possible, and sort out the details later. Here is another source, which cites a similar law in France.

[url="http://books.google.com/books?id=NmVMAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA577&ots=9LCNFyxxEr&dq=lloyd%20george%20protectionist%20patent%20act%20germany%20years&pg=PA577&ci=311%2C225%2C274%2C302&source=bookclip]
proxy.php
[/url]
 
This brings me back to my previous question - where are these German made razors and what marks would we look for to assess if we own one?

We are going by resources from varuous books [ Rusell Adams, Gordon Mckibben] some of the source may not be accurate or dated properly....

In the Mckibben book, he says that in 1905 a sales office in London was opened, a blade plant in Paris, in 1906 blade making plant in Canada, a sales office in Mexico, in 1906 Gillette/Germany had European Distribution network and not a razor factory.
 
Apparently there was a similar requirement in England, thanks to Lloyd George. And in Germany.
But the Germany patent complexity, the variety of different patents granted to Gillette and the many infringement lawsuits made it unclear when the Germany cut off date for patent working might be. The provision of German law made liable to cancelation if a large demand was supplied by goods made from abroad [ in this case Boston/Gillette]...demand for Gillette goods was growing in Germany and Gillette director Heilborn notified Gillette to make a factory there.....or i think it was more of a sales office.
 
I am confused (again...or still). The American Button Co Pocket Editions Wiki states:
  • In 1908 Gillette contracted with the American Button Company, which manufactured this series of razors.
  • Production probably ceased ca. 1914-15.

So were the ABC Pocket Editions shown with the G prefix made in England or in the US for the British Market? If the later, shouldn't they be excluded for the same reason that we are not listing British Patented razors with A an B prefixes?

Made in USA for outside markets.
 
This brings me back to my previous question - where are these German made razors and what marks would we look for to assess if we own one?

Well, it seems that any razor from Germany may have been made in England or Canada and sent there for resale with proper German outer shipper info. Berlin may have been a sales office and not a plant.
 
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