Umm ... nobody should look at the shifter! That is the very first thing one learns in driving lessons.
You would not survive in European city traffic if you could not drive by feel.
(which is why automatics may be safer indeed)
Driving a manual transmission.your thoughts.your experiences.
- Thread starter Lesmore
- Start date
Umm ... nobody should look at the shifter! That is the very first thing one learns in driving lessons.
You would not survive in European city traffic if you could not drive by feel.
(which is why automatics may be safer indeed)
Paris is simply CHAOTIC!!! The first few times I had to drive there I admit I was very apprehensive.
L'Arc de Triomphe is actually a roundabout as you may know ... The thing doesn't even have traffic lights and you actually have to give priority to the guys coming from the right!
I was used to have the priority when inside the roundabout, well ... not there!
I can only imagine if I had to drive in London!
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I usually avoid driving in the UK.
Paris is stressful indeed. Brussels is easier, as is Berlin. Athens is hell. Copenhagen and Oslo are easy.
But American colleagues have told me that they think Europeans are egocentric madmen in traffic, who have no consideration at all for less skilled drivers.
Not a nice portrait, but probably true :-(
Paris is stressful indeed. Brussels is easier, as is Berlin. Athens is hell. Copenhagen and Oslo are easy.
But American colleagues have told me that they think Europeans are egocentric madmen in traffic, who have no consideration at all for less skilled drivers.
Not a nice portrait, but probably true :-(
It seems there are few opinions on what is best or what suits a particular environment. I am fortunate I get to drive some nice vehicles to their full potential. I agree the control from a manual is very rewarding and you need to learn how to drive it properly to get the best from it, automatic cars don't take the same amount of 'learning' but can be very rewarding to drive if you pick the correct one. A modem auto car is very good to drive and has came a long way from the old boxes that were slow to respond to a press of the throttle. Here are three cars I have enjoyed driving which all drive very differently have different drive trains but all are equally as rewarding to drive if you understand where the limit is and how to get the best from each of them 
Ahh... Brussels! I love Brussels, and yes, driving there is indeed stress free. Such a nice city full of nice people!
Actually a few months ago I made a car trip of 3800Kms across Europe. What your American colleagues say might be true, but not everywhere. Depends on the environment. Drivers in France, outside Paris are VERY civilized. In Italy not so much, sorry Italian friends, I LOVE Italy btw.
In fact, the more you go East, the worse it gets, JMHO.
You may have misread my post. I can't imagine someone looking at the shifter, that would be very dangerous. I certainly never have looked at the shifter. My post was about looking at the road (and merely touching the shifter), therefore not having eyes or a hand to waste on distractions.
Perhaps you meant tachometer. I too shift by ear, though I do not fault people for using the tachometer and in an unfamiliar car I tend to look. It's not like I'm never going to look at the gauges; I look at the speedometer constantly, trying to keep my speed low enough not to get a ticket yet high enough to reduce my chances of getting shot with a crossbow or rammed off the road.
Boaz ... is that an actual Evo X ??
I'm British and try to avoid driving in London!
Been driving a manual all my life so far (46 years) and knwoing when to change gear is just a reflex after a while. Mainly downto the engine note, but alos changing down before you hit traffic, roundabouts etc.
Trouble with changing on engine note is that I have been driving diesel cars for about 25 years and a petrol car sounds like it's revving its guts out to me now when I have a lift with friends! I get the urge to change gear at about 2000 revs!
Gareth
Just because it can rev high doesn't mean it necessarily must. People think petrol engines will self-destruct at reasonable engine speeds just by stepping on the accelerator a bit. Granted you guys get smaller displacement engines with less torque, but I bet you can still keep it under 2000 all day without holding up traffic or hurting anything.
I am currently car shopping and torn between the exterior body color of choice or a manual transmission. I hate that I have to make that choice.
You will spend lots of time inside the car driving it. You will not spend anywhere near as much time outside the car staring at it.
I doubt that. The 1.2 liter (73 cubic inches) engine of our car performs best between 2000 and 3000 rpm.
Granted, ours is an old model. Modern engines may be better. But my experience with small engines is that they are gutless at low rpms.
First car was a '88 ford Branco 2- 5 speed 4x4. Loved that car... Ugly as sin, but was it fun..
i loved the 5 speed.
I didnt get my first speeding ticket or accident until I got a auto trans.
i stayed off the phone a lot more then i do with a auto trans.
i will insist that my kids first car be stick... If your not focused on driving, what gear your in, clutch, let up on the gas, stopped on a hill at a red light... Your not going anywhere!!!
the 5 speed manual made me a better driver with out a doubt.
only thing i dont miss... Sitting in traffic with a manual....
Clutch, gas, break.
Clutch, gas, break.
Clutch, gas, break.
Clutch, gas, clutch, shift, break.
Clutch, gas, wind first gear up, break.
Leg is getting tired on the clutch, grind a pound of first gear...
Ect. Ect.
i loved the 5 speed.
I didnt get my first speeding ticket or accident until I got a auto trans.
i stayed off the phone a lot more then i do with a auto trans.
i will insist that my kids first car be stick... If your not focused on driving, what gear your in, clutch, let up on the gas, stopped on a hill at a red light... Your not going anywhere!!!
the 5 speed manual made me a better driver with out a doubt.
only thing i dont miss... Sitting in traffic with a manual....
Clutch, gas, break.
Clutch, gas, break.
Clutch, gas, break.
Clutch, gas, clutch, shift, break.
Clutch, gas, wind first gear up, break.
Leg is getting tired on the clutch, grind a pound of first gear...
Ect. Ect.
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Most petrol engines on this side of the pond perform best between 4000 and 6000 RPM, but you don't need best performance during normal driving (even with less power available). I'm not telling you when to shift, I'm just saying don't panic that the engine is going to self-destruct if you absent-mindedly find yourself practicing your diesel shifting habits. With computer controlled ignition timing, as long as oil pressure is sufficient there won't be any damage. It's a common but unfounded fear leftover from the days when a little low RPM driving could melt a piston.
Great analogy! I am still driving a manual transmission vehicle, my 1998 Jeep Wrangler, which at present is topless and the doors are hanging in my garage. I love the 5-speed transmission and the feel of the rock knob shift handle. Among the many benefits are better control off road and the ability to roll start with a dead battery ;-)
My father insisted I learn to drive a manual transmission, and I have only owned manual transmission cars ever since. They have become increasingly hard to find, especially in a commuter car as opposed to a sports car. My wife owns an automatic, but her father taught her to drive a manual as well. I will be teaching my kids to drive a manual transmission as well.
In Israel you have separate licenses for manual and automatic so almost everyone learns to drive on stick but most of the cars are automatic. I still remember my driving instructor yelling at me after I stalled the car for the millionth time "can't you control that frigging left leg of yours!?!?".
I haven't touched a clutch for 10 years after I got the license. In California I once met a girl that said her car was "an MR2 spyder". I asked her "is it stick" and her reply was "dude! it's a sports car!". Even though I am not a gear head, in fact, I am not fund of driving at all, i ended up marrying her.
That car had a very unforgiving clutch. We had the pads replaced a year ago which made it much more easy to drive, at least for me.
So point #1 - the experience of driving a manual transmission varies considerably between cars, even of the same model, depending of the condition of the clutch. People drive it and get accustom to it... like a worn shoe that fits *you* perfectly. If you stall your friend's car - it doesn't necessarily reflect on you.
We are now in the Czech Republic and while we are waiting for the order of my wife's company car to come from VW, we are driving the company's loaner/beater 2007 Hyunadi Sonata which is also known around the office as "The Tractor" and as "The Mule" and bunch of other names. In fact it is not so bad, I have 3 safety seats side by side in the back and it runs smoothly enough, but the clutch pads are a mess. Well, I must have had something to do with it the first time I took it home, the whole street stank of burnt clutch.... but I did get used to it. Now that loaner had to be replaced and they gave us the other tractor (they had 2 apparently) which is also beat up and the clutch stalls on me, but at different places. Give me another week and I will figure it out.
While my wife used to be the driver in the family in the past 8 years, somehow I managed to come to better terms with this hyundai so I am driving it. I made it a goal to get the car ride to be a smooth as possible, and I don't just shift gears as soon as possible because the sudden acceleration stop rocks everyone backwards and forwards which is very annoying. What I do is let the car run at a steady speed for 2 more seconds before I change gears, as gently as possible - it helps a lot. One of the local cab companies shtick is that all the cabs are Audis. After one ride with them I swore I never get on those cabs again. Too sporty, and the drivers change gear like over caffeinated chain smokers... very edgy ride.
Point #2 - it takes time to get to a point when the ride is smooth for the passengers.
I call Prague as "2nd gear city". It is not a fun city to drive around, not as bad as Boston, but there are plenty of lights, poor visibility around corners and pedestrians that tend to break check you when you least expected them. In their defense, unlike the states, Prague drivers do not yield to pedestrians at crosswalks. I stay in 2nd most of the time because the periods where 3rd gear is warranted are very brief and that engine is not powerful enough to keep going at 3rd gear at slow speeds.
To be honest i am fed up with the clutch in the city. I had to parallel park yesterday, up hill in reverse, to a very tight spot, with a car packed...
Needless to say, the car we ordered is with automatic transmission.
Manual transmission does give you better control on the speed and should give you better gas millage. The new VW even have a 6th gear for extra gas saving and the clutch there is very, very smooth. But in the city? its a hassle.
There is a certain notion, especially in Europe, that manual transmission is cheaper to repair than automatic transmission. That very well may be true. However, that technology has been around for, what, 60 years now? most car makers have figured how to make automatic gear boxes that don't break down.
I had a 1986 Passat that 20 years later was falling apart (mainly due to my brother's shameful neglect) but never once did I have had problems with the automatic transmission. Provided you maintain it properly this should not be an issue.
On the other hand, one bad ride can mess up a clutch pad.
So if you love driving for the sake of driving and feel the need to control the car better then why not. By the same token, I like shaving with a straight razor - just for the sake of it.
For me, driving is getting from A to B as smoothly as possible. I don't get any satisfaction from the actual activity of driving, and manually changing gears during the ride does very little to enhance the experience for me.
If I can choose between auto and stick - I'd go for auto.
I haven't touched a clutch for 10 years after I got the license. In California I once met a girl that said her car was "an MR2 spyder". I asked her "is it stick" and her reply was "dude! it's a sports car!". Even though I am not a gear head, in fact, I am not fund of driving at all, i ended up marrying her.
That car had a very unforgiving clutch. We had the pads replaced a year ago which made it much more easy to drive, at least for me.
So point #1 - the experience of driving a manual transmission varies considerably between cars, even of the same model, depending of the condition of the clutch. People drive it and get accustom to it... like a worn shoe that fits *you* perfectly. If you stall your friend's car - it doesn't necessarily reflect on you.
We are now in the Czech Republic and while we are waiting for the order of my wife's company car to come from VW, we are driving the company's loaner/beater 2007 Hyunadi Sonata which is also known around the office as "The Tractor" and as "The Mule" and bunch of other names. In fact it is not so bad, I have 3 safety seats side by side in the back and it runs smoothly enough, but the clutch pads are a mess. Well, I must have had something to do with it the first time I took it home, the whole street stank of burnt clutch.... but I did get used to it. Now that loaner had to be replaced and they gave us the other tractor (they had 2 apparently) which is also beat up and the clutch stalls on me, but at different places. Give me another week and I will figure it out.
While my wife used to be the driver in the family in the past 8 years, somehow I managed to come to better terms with this hyundai so I am driving it. I made it a goal to get the car ride to be a smooth as possible, and I don't just shift gears as soon as possible because the sudden acceleration stop rocks everyone backwards and forwards which is very annoying. What I do is let the car run at a steady speed for 2 more seconds before I change gears, as gently as possible - it helps a lot. One of the local cab companies shtick is that all the cabs are Audis. After one ride with them I swore I never get on those cabs again. Too sporty, and the drivers change gear like over caffeinated chain smokers... very edgy ride.
Point #2 - it takes time to get to a point when the ride is smooth for the passengers.
I call Prague as "2nd gear city". It is not a fun city to drive around, not as bad as Boston, but there are plenty of lights, poor visibility around corners and pedestrians that tend to break check you when you least expected them. In their defense, unlike the states, Prague drivers do not yield to pedestrians at crosswalks. I stay in 2nd most of the time because the periods where 3rd gear is warranted are very brief and that engine is not powerful enough to keep going at 3rd gear at slow speeds.
To be honest i am fed up with the clutch in the city. I had to parallel park yesterday, up hill in reverse, to a very tight spot, with a car packed...
Needless to say, the car we ordered is with automatic transmission.
Manual transmission does give you better control on the speed and should give you better gas millage. The new VW even have a 6th gear for extra gas saving and the clutch there is very, very smooth. But in the city? its a hassle.
There is a certain notion, especially in Europe, that manual transmission is cheaper to repair than automatic transmission. That very well may be true. However, that technology has been around for, what, 60 years now? most car makers have figured how to make automatic gear boxes that don't break down.
I had a 1986 Passat that 20 years later was falling apart (mainly due to my brother's shameful neglect) but never once did I have had problems with the automatic transmission. Provided you maintain it properly this should not be an issue.
On the other hand, one bad ride can mess up a clutch pad.
So if you love driving for the sake of driving and feel the need to control the car better then why not. By the same token, I like shaving with a straight razor - just for the sake of it.
For me, driving is getting from A to B as smoothly as possible. I don't get any satisfaction from the actual activity of driving, and manually changing gears during the ride does very little to enhance the experience for me.
If I can choose between auto and stick - I'd go for auto.
