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Ivory sales and us... New ban is looking like it's going to be in effect

You can't write the rules on a controversial subject, not follow such rules yourself and then throw up your OP rules when people don't agree with your point of view.

OP, go ahead, enjoy your vintage razor, make new Ivory scales from questionable sourced Ivory, whatever. Just don't come on this Gentlemanly forum and further promote something that many people morally feel quite strongly about and take offense to.

I have never promoted it in this thread... Once again and this is the last time I'm going to say it! I DO NOT promote the ivory trade nor poaching nor the modern use of ivory... I DO not mind vintage ivory as the damage has already been done... I have bought PREBAN ivory (totally legal) ONCE and RETURNED IT because of the guilt I felt about using it...This is just an FYI for those people selling their razors here and on eBay... It is now illegal DONT DO IT!

I don't think there is anything wrong with saying one likes the look and feel of working with ivory... Just because something is questionable to own doesn't make it feel or look any different objectively... But buying it is controversial and should be avoided

Don't say I've not been gentlemanly about warning other people of its sale.... I believe my third post was "is it really worth it?"

Lastly I don't think it's un gentlemanly to talk about this topic as it can lead to potential fines to some of our members here... What IS un gentlemanly is baseless name calling and judgement of character ( not saying your doing this just as an example)
 
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I have a violin bow Just happens to have an ivory inlay frog, there are vintage guitars that have ivory inlay... That will now be confiscated and destroyed if it changes hands...

I think that's an exaggeration since anyone could just have the item professionally restored and the Ivory easily removed or replaced with comparable non Ivory material. Bam, problem solved.
 
Sorry OP but the thought of poaching so someone can get disgusting set of ivory handles just makes my blood boil. I'm not saying that you promote poaching but in effect you're indirectly doing so by saying things that you like the feel and look of it and want it that bad.



Is it Ivory specifically that offends you or all animal products/by-products?

I just ask because I can tell that it is something you are passionate about.

Somebody earlier had said that elephants are culled in some areas because the population cannot be sustained by the habitat. The elephant is listed as vulnerable not endangered, but that's not to say Im in favor of seeing them get to an endangered status before poaching is stopped.

Just curious what drives your views on ivory.
There was a similar thread about badger hair brushes recently and it made me curious how you feel about badger etc.

Out of curiosity I googled and found that asphalt, drywall,paint, car tires and sugar all have animal by products! Gross
 
I think that's an exaggeration since anyone could just have the item professionally restored and the Ivory easily removed or replaced with comparable non Ivory material. Bam, problem solved.

I think the problem is that the costs falls on the consumer now to replace the ivory... That's what has other people in an uproar... (Not me as I'll never sell that bow) ivory use in bows was pretty ubiquitous at one point..
 
Off topic but,, Heespharm since I know you are in Texas now have you taught that violin how to play fiddle music?

Nope classically trained through and through... HOWEVER i did have a fiddle (lowered bridge so as to promote the ease of crossing strings) in high school and did perform a lot of civil era tunes from time to time... Can you imagine a civil war festival with an asian playing in the band... Lolz
 
Your reference that some countries have to cull herds to prevent starvation is accurate, but also points to the reason that managing elephants isn't the same as what many places in the US has been able to do with deer and turkey. Poachers are only half the problem. The other half (and perhaps the greater challenge) is rampant habitat destruction. I've traveled in southwest Africa off and on, and it seems that development and new infrastructure has increased ten-fold each time I go back. New roads and cell towers are progress for the African people, but no so much for the wildlife.

I know the new laws seem somewhat overbearing (or even ridiculous in some ways), but I think any effort to end the trade in ivory is a good thing.

You are absolutely correct that habitat is the greater challenge in a world with ever increasing populations. My worry is that animals that have a regulated commercial value seem to thrive and have increasing numbers while those that don't get pushed into extinction. It comes down to money. Maybe it shouldn't, but it does. If the million dollar shopping mall outweighs the value of the land being kept as habitat for animals then up the mall goes. Public access hunting land in this country generates billions of dollars in revenue. This pays to keep the land wild and the animals thriving. Hunters, their fees, and their equipment retailers pay HUGE amounts of money to keep the land wild. A few photo safaris can't even come close. Weather you use animal products or not will not change the outcome for the elephant. Billions of dollars absolutely can. If they do not have an enormous value in real dollars then they will be pushed out of the way by people who will proudly exclaim "I never hurt and elephant." Those same people never make the connection between the rezoning law they voted for and the loss of the animals.
 
Is it Ivory specifically that offends you or all animal products/by-products?

I just ask because I can tell that it is something you are passionate about.

Somebody earlier had said that elephants are culled in some areas because the population cannot be sustained by the habitat. The elephant is listed as vulnerable not endangered, but that's not to say Im in favor of seeing them get to an endangered status before poaching is stopped.

Just curious what drives your views on ivory.
There was a similar thread about badger hair brushes recently and it made me curious how you feel about badger etc.

Out of curiosity I googled and found that asphalt, drywall,paint, car tires and sugar all have animal by products! Gross

I don't have a problem with badger culling because first of all, badgers are able to reproduce like rabbits and secondly, they don't have the cognitive functions and feelings that elephants have. Elephants are one of the most intelligent species on the planet, next to whales, primates, and humans. And they have a lifespan of 80 years on average and have a slow reproductive cycle. Elephants have been observed to mourn their dead and show signs of depression when one of their own die or are killed.
 
I don't have a problem with badger culling because first of all, badgers are able to reproduce like rabbits and secondly, they don't have the cognitive functions and feelings that elephants have. Elephants are one of the most intelligent species on the planet, next to whales, primates, and humans. And they have a lifespan of 80 years on average and have a slow reproductive cycle. Elephants have been observed to mourn their dead and show signs of depression when one of their own die or are killed.

Not to mention some get so depressed when their spouse dies that they just sit a cry until they too pass away.. That's devotion if you ask me
 

Kentos

B&B's Dr. Doolittle.
Staff member
I don't have a problem with badger culling because first of all, badgers are able to reproduce like rabbits and secondly, they don't have the cognitive functions and feelings that elephants have. Elephants are one of the most intelligent species on the planet, next to whales, primates, and humans. And they have a lifespan of 80 years on average and have a slow reproductive cycle. Elephants have been observed to mourn their dead and show signs of depression when one of their own die or are killed.

How is one able to justify or condemn the killing of innocent animals based on a perceived cognitive ability? One culture's cuddly pet is another's dinner.

This needs to stay on topic folks or this thread goes the way of the helpless cognitively stunted Dodo bird.
 
Nope classically trained through and through... HOWEVER i did have a fiddle (lowered bridge so as to promote the ease of crossing strings) in high school and did perform a lot of civil era tunes from time to time... Can you imagine a civil war festival with an asian playing in the band... Lolz

Now that would be awesome! My wife is Korean and our daughter was raised in East Tennessee. Watching S L O W talking people look amazed when my daughter would tell them, "Ya'll need to understand, I'm from around here" always got me laughing!
 
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