Unusual backed Vintage Coticule, make a guess!

Hello Gentleman,

here is a coticule out of my collection, that has a unusal BBW part, or is this no BBW?













I have many BBW stones (mostly backing of vintage Coti), and this is the only one with brownish slurry.
It seems to be finer and harder than an ordiary BBW. There is probably a BBW but it turns to be grey black and has this little shining parts like a la Lune.
There is another Vintage Combo to show the difference in colour and especially the Slurry colour.
Any guesses?

greets Sebastian

No guesses on the BBW, but that's a nice looking stone!

I'd say old BBW. It may have changed colour over time. I think I have seen similar ones on vintages I've had.

I've had brownish slurry off an old BBW - and you're does seem to look like BBW - but I suppose it could be slate.
Prob BBW though.

Nice stone!

I have had some vintage coticules with a brownish slurry from the BBW and the layers are just as varied as coticule in looks. Being stamped extra extra it was considered a high grade stone when stamped.

It is BBW, 100% sure.

Whether it is good for honing... give it a try and let us know.

Generally, only the BBW from near the coticule layer is sufficient to hone. In the old days they would use whatever, from wherever, because it was just a backing, like slate is now.

It may hone, or it may not. Give it a shot. At worst it will bugger up the edge. But you have the coticule to fix it, so why not?

The grain looks like bbw.

I just wanted to show you an example of a coticule with similar BBW natural combo I had at one time.

life2short1971 said:

I just wanted to show you an example of a coticule with similar BBW natural combo I had at one time.

View attachment 414497

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Thank you, now i`m sure it is a BBW. Yesterday i made a touchup for my 8 day set of Gong razors(my winter set, because of the dry air, i only like coti finish on them, with any other finish i get a "burning" face after the shave), they were honed on different coticule, and after three winters they got an refreshed edge. One of them i took on this BBW and the shave today was very good, would say coti like.
The others were finished on LaVerte, LaVeinette, Silkstone, Nakayama Maruka Kiita, Nakayama Maruka Asagi, Ohtaniyama (Maruoyama) Kamisori Asagi Stone, and Y/G Escher.

This BBW is a fast and fine one, comparable to a medium fast LaGrise, very good for a BBW.

greets Sebastian

Great news! Very cool.

I would concentrate on the coticule side first and get the most you can from it. It should be a good stone by the stamping.

Sharpchef said:

Hello Gentleman,

here is a coticule out of my collection, that has a unusal BBW part, or is this no BBW?

I have many BBW stones (mostly backing of vintage Coti), and this is the only one with brownish slurry.
It seems to be finer and harder than an ordiary BBW. There is probably a BBW but it turns to be grey black and has this little shining parts like a la Lune.
There is another Vintage Combo to show the difference in colour and especially the Slurry colour.
Any guesses?

greets Sebastian

Click to expand...

From the pic of the two layered dark side, I am wondering if that might not be a hybrid Lorraine/BBW. I believe the Lorraine would have been more violet or wine-colored.

Lorraine/Rouge Du Salm

Yup Lorraine /rouge de salm

I would be surprised if so considering the Lorraine is a layer between two BBW layers and was known to be good then so it stands to reason it would not be wasted as a backing on a coticule. I have seen BBW like that attached naturally to coticules which could not be the Lorraine vein since it does not occur next to a yellow layer.

life2short1971 said:

I would be surprised if so considering the Lorraine is a layer between two BBW layers and was known to be good then so it stands to reason it would not be wasted as a backing on a coticule. I have seen BBW like that attached naturally to coticules which could not be the Lorraine vein since it does not occur next to a yellow layer.

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...check back Henks Grinding and Honing Part 4....

This is quoted from Page 48:
"It is true that in several combo's you will find a combination that is a very close one. The description of La Dressante au Bleu, the older natural combos La Dressante Upper Layer, La Veinette, La Petite Blanche and La Nouvelle Veine is observed on the back a beautiful wine red colour."

"This color is also called "Lie de vin" or Maroon. Unfortunately, modern whetstones are glued on Brazilian slate because the dark red stone has become rare. Natural La Veinette has in my opinion the most beautiful color and the La Petit Blanche comes a close second."

This means in my thinking that in the past the Rouge Du Salm was not that rare it was also used as a back on a Coticule for the stones which were glued....

For the natural combos check back pictures on Page 33, 35, 37 for some examples which have a near identification in thinking on a rouge Du Salm....also Henk quoted the pictures as "Rouge Du Salm"

I did understand it that the "Rouge Du Salm" is a kind of the "inner Part" or beeing a Part between two layers of the Belgian Blue Stone (BBW)...

I think this is a good example beeing a Rouge Du Salm / Lorraine...

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7343/12549240503_901d26c962_c_d.jpg

On the Video you can see the metallic blue inclusions, slurry is really more vine red the brown...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2bpjAJfCkrU

This is the back of my La Veinette Natural combo. I have also had stones with the circular pink spot like the one in the video and looked similar as part of other natural combos. I find it hard to say that a stone is the Rouge Du Salm / Lorraine without actually knowing it was extracted from the vein or by a label attesting to such attached. Unless there is someone that knows the history of a stone there is no way to really say what is or is not one imo.

The reddish and deep blue are both present in this stone which clearly is a La Veinette. Is there a known example anywhere besides just assumptions of the stone in question?

life2short1971 said:

This is the back of my La Veinette Natural combo. I have also had stones with the circular pink spot like the one in the video and looked similar as part of other natural combos. I find it hard to say that a stone is the Rouge Du Salm / Lorraine without actually knowing it was extracted from the vein or by a label attesting to such attached. Unless there is someone that knows the history of a stone there is no way to really say what is or is not one imo.

The reddish and deep blue are both present in this stone which clearly is a La Veinette. Is there a known example anywhere besides just assumptions of the stone in question?


View attachment 438785View attachment 438786View attachment 438787View attachment 438788

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I do agree with your statement, i still do not understand everything which is written...i am shure that Henk knows what he is writing about....he also mentioned that he bought a certain Stock of the Veine Lorraine, so this might be the clue that he can have a certain comparison from the stones he once bought from Burton...which others of us can not do...

I own 3 Stones in my thinking not beeing a BBW as all these three slurries in a dark or vine red....then i own two stones which seems to be more a Lorraine Rouge (Sandstone) and iam certain these are no BBW Part or Layer...these seem to be Pierres Lorraine...

I would certainly love to try one if ever given the opportunity. i wonder if Ardennes has access to and if so will ever extract them.