Thanks for clarification. I was thinking the same thing.
A little closer look at Voskhod and Feather blades (SEM Comparison)
- Thread starter Evil4blue
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Thanks for clarification. I was thinking the same thing.
Did you ever do a comparison between Personna Med Preps vs Labs under the 'scope?
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- #25
I think next week I'm going to work on doing one of these for the Gillette 7 O'Clock Series. I don't have any blue super plats, but I have all the others. I think I'll throw in the SilverBlues too. Since we're looking at 4 or 5 blades, I'll work on getting it up by the end of next week. Stay tuned!
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- #27
So the reggedy-looking edge I'm seeing in the pic below is not really the edge?
Correct. The really ragged edge is the polymer coating and as you can see, it's sorta translucent. The darker line just to the right of the ragged edge is the actual metal edge. There is still some waviness, but this is also at 1000x magnification so it's really not that bad and shouldn't have a significant effect on the cutting edge.
Awesome study --- thank you, sir. Leaving the lab and turning to the non-scientific, real world bathroom experience, I use both, but consistently find the Voskhods to give a smoother, more comfortable shave. Depending at least in part on what razor I'm using, Feathers can often feel harsh, especially on the first pass. JMO, YMMV.
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- #30
Not yet, it's on my list to do. I got a few "experiments" lined up. Like I've said a few times, my access to the instrument can be limited sometimes, so I gotta plan out my usage. I'll get to it at some point in the nearish future.
Steve:
Thanx for your reply, support and for sharing!
I wonder how "brittle" that coating is. I often think that my second shave from a Feather is better than my first. Looking at the high magnification pic makes me wonder if that coating might contribute to what I think I'm experiencing.
According to Gillette patent filings that can happen: see US5985459 for details. The coating is baked onto the blade at high temperature, which leaves a sort of crust on the edge. That crust increases force-to-cut (FTC) by as much as 50% for the first few strokes. Over the first dozen or so strokes that excess wears away, but the anti-friction properties of the coating continue to work for several shaves.
That, anyway, is how I read the patent. The patent goes on to talk about removing the excess coating with strong solvents. But it seems that few, if any, blade-makers actually do that.
Awesome photos, presentation and analysis, tyvm. Keep up the good informative work. I am a daily Feather shaver but I also enjoyed the Voskhods with their teflon coating as they don't tug and provide me with great shaves.
The Gillette Yellows are definitely also a very sharp blade also I have enjoyed. Those are 2 other blades I would shave with and was already considering getting a sleeve of Voskhods for a change of pace. Still have samplers of both and will be trying them out again soon.
The Gillette Yellows are definitely also a very sharp blade also I have enjoyed. Those are 2 other blades I would shave with and was already considering getting a sleeve of Voskhods for a change of pace. Still have samplers of both and will be trying them out again soon.
Any way we could get a master thread with all the sub threads stickied in regards to all this fabulous research?
- Thread starter
- #36
Here's a little special extra something, something.
Here's a Voskhod blade that was used for 4 shaves:
And on Edge:
And because I know you guys, here's a Feather blade used for 2 shaves:
And on Edge:
As you can see, both blades completely lost their polymer coating. The Voskhod looks pretty terrible after 4 shaves and the Feather looks to be wearing a little more gracefully after just 2 shaves. The funny thing is I can usually get 5-6 shaves out of the Voskhod and the Feather is only good for 2-3 shaves normally. The photos seem counter intuitive to me. Oh well. Yay Science!
Here's a Voskhod blade that was used for 4 shaves:
And on Edge:
And because I know you guys, here's a Feather blade used for 2 shaves:
And on Edge:
As you can see, both blades completely lost their polymer coating. The Voskhod looks pretty terrible after 4 shaves and the Feather looks to be wearing a little more gracefully after just 2 shaves. The funny thing is I can usually get 5-6 shaves out of the Voskhod and the Feather is only good for 2-3 shaves normally. The photos seem counter intuitive to me. Oh well. Yay Science!
Feathers are great, but a little harsh for me. I've really enjoyed Bluebirds the past few days. Nearly as sharp as a Feather, and milder on my skin, but they seem like they're only a 3 shave blade. I've been piecing together an order for samples to try out. The Gillette Yellows & Blacks are already on it, and now I'll have to add the Voskhods! What an interesting hobby this is becoming...
David
David
Those look great, thanks for posting.
In these SEM images, both edges still look pretty good. So what makes a blade wear out?
Without claiming to have all the answers, I suspect that our perception of DE blades is about friction and its effect on FTC (force to cut) at least as much as the condition of the ultimate edge. When new, the edge is covered with a high-friction surface of sintered coating. This is visible with optical scopes and somewhat visible with SEM. This excess coating increases FTC for the first few strokes, which is troublesome for some gents and may makes the second shave better than the first. As that excess wears off, it reveals a thin film of fluorotelomer (yes, back to US5985459 again). That thin film is not visible optically nor to SEM, but is still effective at reducing friction and thus FTC.
With that anti-friction coating exposed, FTC is relatively consistent for a shave or two. However soap scum and other shaving residue begins to adhere to the coating. This acts something like ice on the bottom of snow skis, making the blade feel rougher and increasing FTC. Stropping and other forms of cleaning will remove the gunk, extending the life of the blade. But cleaning probably abrades the thin film of fluorotelomer, and so does shaving. Eventually this reveals bits of the underlying surface of the blade, making the shaves feel increasingly rough and grabby. All this happens independent of the state of the ultimate edge.
YMMV: I stated the above as if it were fact but is mostly speculation, putting personal experience together with US5985459 and other sources. My own experience varies too, and some blades do not seem to last long enough for the fluorotelomer to wear out. For example the old Walmart Wilks seem to show genuine edge damage after just one encounter with my beard, possibly due to the grade of steel or the tempering used. Some gents report no benefit from jeans-stropping with any blade, which may mean that for their beard and skin other factors matter more for them.
In these SEM images, both edges still look pretty good. So what makes a blade wear out?
Without claiming to have all the answers, I suspect that our perception of DE blades is about friction and its effect on FTC (force to cut) at least as much as the condition of the ultimate edge. When new, the edge is covered with a high-friction surface of sintered coating. This is visible with optical scopes and somewhat visible with SEM. This excess coating increases FTC for the first few strokes, which is troublesome for some gents and may makes the second shave better than the first. As that excess wears off, it reveals a thin film of fluorotelomer (yes, back to US5985459 again). That thin film is not visible optically nor to SEM, but is still effective at reducing friction and thus FTC.
With that anti-friction coating exposed, FTC is relatively consistent for a shave or two. However soap scum and other shaving residue begins to adhere to the coating. This acts something like ice on the bottom of snow skis, making the blade feel rougher and increasing FTC. Stropping and other forms of cleaning will remove the gunk, extending the life of the blade. But cleaning probably abrades the thin film of fluorotelomer, and so does shaving. Eventually this reveals bits of the underlying surface of the blade, making the shaves feel increasingly rough and grabby. All this happens independent of the state of the ultimate edge.
YMMV: I stated the above as if it were fact but is mostly speculation, putting personal experience together with US5985459 and other sources. My own experience varies too, and some blades do not seem to last long enough for the fluorotelomer to wear out. For example the old Walmart Wilks seem to show genuine edge damage after just one encounter with my beard, possibly due to the grade of steel or the tempering used. Some gents report no benefit from jeans-stropping with any blade, which may mean that for their beard and skin other factors matter more for them.
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- #39
mblakele, that's some interesting insight.
I should point out that neither of these blades were taken to "failure" I could have shaved at least a couple more time with each, but I tend to change out the blades on a weekly basis rather than at the point of tugging or dullness. I don't really use feathers all that often, but ran these for a couple shaves just to get some wear on them for the SEM.
I have some other used blades that I'll examine in due time, I'm also going to try the jean-stropping experiment in the near future.
I should point out that neither of these blades were taken to "failure" I could have shaved at least a couple more time with each, but I tend to change out the blades on a weekly basis rather than at the point of tugging or dullness. I don't really use feathers all that often, but ran these for a couple shaves just to get some wear on them for the SEM.
I have some other used blades that I'll examine in due time, I'm also going to try the jean-stropping experiment in the near future.
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I will be very interested to see what you glean from that! It seems to make sense, yet may be a complete waste of time and risk.
