Taxes and bulk tobacco storage.

I had a worrying chain of thoughts today.

I went to yet another smoke shop that had a wall covered in dozens huge bags of "pipe tobacco" for tax-dodging roll-your-own cigarettes and was feeling kinda disheartened. I then realized that I ought to just accept that, like any other obscure hobby, I will just have to be patient, save up the meager budget I can make for it, and order online occasionally. On further thought I realized that I have a whole lot of tobacco already in stock, considering how fast I consume it, and I could wait/save for a good long while.

Then I thought back to those cubic yards of tax-dodge tobacco and realized that it must outsell tobacco for actual pipe use 1000 to 1. Then I began to worry that any day now pipe tobacco is going to get whacked with absolutely ludicrous taxes, and that I've taken up pipe smoking at exactly the wrong time.

Question 1: Is that a valid concern? Do you see a near future of taxes many times the price of the tobacco?

If so I'll need to buy in as budget-friendly a way as possible in order to stock up. I've read plenty about cellaring tobacco, and most of the advice that seems expert says that you cannot properly age bulk tobacco. I'm not sure I buy that, because before tinned tobacco was sealed, it was in the same unsealed bulk tobacco form, but I'll operate on the premise that it's true anyway.

Question 2: On the premise that bulk tobacco cannot be properly cellared and aged, can it reasonably be stored and preserved long-term (i.e. decades)?

Question 1: You don't live in Australia

Question 2: As long as it doesn't mold, you're just going to have tobacco that isn't fresh and won't taste as good as when you got it. You can't get mason jars or anything like that?

AFAIK cigarettes are taxed at completely insane rates, hence the "pipe tobacco" dodge.

Sorry, I should have mentioned that the idea was to store the bulk tobacco in mason jars (or whatever better low-budget suggestion is made).

The last round of SCHIP did quite a number on the RYO cigarette tobacco. The tax increased from something like $2.00 a pound to $24.00 a pound, hence relabeling it as pipe tobacco since the tax on pipe tobacco increase from $1 per pound to $3.00

I'm sure there are some that want to close this loophole and just tax all loose smokeable tobacco at the same rate.
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If jarred, pipe tobacco can keep for a long time. Some blends like aromatics and latakia blends will loose some of their flavor after a certain period of time (years and years) but generally speaking it will keep. I've been buying most of my tobacco in 1/2 and 1 pound increments. Which offers a substantial savings over 2oz and 50gr tins.

That being said, tobacco really isn't a good investment. Seals can fail, jars can break, homeowners or renters insurance is probably not going to cover you if there is a fire.

Of course pipe tobacco can be stored a long time. Some members of the BL have enjoyed 30 year old tobacco.

If you worry/have doubts about storing bulk pipe tobacco, then simply buy tins. It's not as cost-effective, but really a few tins here and there aren't going to break the bank if you are serious about this hobby. That way, you can trust the factory seal and cellar it away for years.

I don't know what you have read, but bulk tobacco can be cellared/aged/stored in mason jars for a good long time. Cellaring/storing all depends on making sure the mason jars are sealed tight and put in a cool, dark place with as little humidity swing as you can manage. Aging all depends on the blend you are storing (varying levels of sugar in different types of baccy lend to different aging) and the amount of air in the mason jar when sealed and air exchange (if it doesn't have or create a vacuum seal). If done properly, the 'baccy will be no worse than when you put it in the jar and more often than not, it will have aged wonderfully. Because really, what is the alternative? It can't survive in the standard plastic bag for more than a few weeks.

Commander Quan said:

I'm sure there are some that want to close this loophole and just tax all loose smokeable tobacco at the same rate.

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That's exactly my fear. I see it as very likely to happen.

That being said, tobacco really isn't a good investment. Seals can fail, jars can break, homeowners or renters insurance is probably not going to cover you if there is a fire.

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What about a series of small fires?

the_edski said:

If you worry/have doubts about storing bulk pipe tobacco, then simply buy tins. It's not as cost-effective, but really a few tins here and there aren't going to break the bank if you are serious about this hobby. That way, you can trust the factory seal and cellar it away for years.

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The trouble with that is the expense means I wouldn't be able to effectively hedge against future excessive tax/outright prohibition with my budget.

I don't know what you have read, but bulk tobacco can be cellared/aged/stored in mason jars for a good long time.

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Ok, that's good to know. Everything I've read has been concerned with aging and says not to try to age bulk or that you won't get the same results with bulk as with tins, but never ever says "...but that doesn't mean the results are bad, just they aren't the same" or "...but you can at least store bulk tobacco".

Because really, what is the alternative? It can't survive in the standard plastic bag for more than a few weeks.

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The alternative is, basically, to just skip it and depend on always being able to get tobacco within my budget (and within the law).

captaincaveman said:

Ok, that's good to know. Everything I've read has been concerned with aging and says not to try to age bulk or that you won't get the same results with bulk as with tins, but never ever says "...but that doesn't mean the results are bad, just they aren't the same" or "...but you can at least store bulk tobacco".

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I've not even read anything saying that aging bulk in mason jars is less effective than in tins. I can see it being initially slower, unless you vacuum seal the mason jar when first putting it in, however. Seems the aging really starts once the oxygen in the container is used up, which will happen naturally in a jar, over all, unless you have a very small amount of tobacco and a huge airspace in it. If you pack the jar well, and leave very little to no air space in it, the jar will vacuum seal itself at some point (I've been sitting on the PC and heard the lid "pop" as it happened on various jars in my cellar), as well as opened jars I had for 6 months and they were definitely vacuum sealed by that point.

Here's a question, and hopefully not a total hijack.

I always open my tins, fluff the tobacco and leave it sitting out until it reaches close to where I like to smoke it, as far as how moist it is. Then I jar it up. This has worked well, even laying stuff down for over a year, right amount of moisture. Let's say I want to age the tobacco, leave it alone for a number of years, would it be best to jar it as moist as it came in the tin?

Why not leave it in the tin, I suppose will be the first question. I smoke fairly infrequently and like to try a lot of stuff, so I typically split a tin into two small jars, one I smoke on now and one for down the road.

Sorry for hijacking.

tattooed said:

Here's a question, and hopefully not a total hijack.

I always open my tins, fluff the tobacco and leave it sitting out until it reaches close to where I like to smoke it, as far as how moist it is. Then I jar it up. This has worked well, even laying stuff down for over a year, right amount of moisture. Let's say I want to age the tobacco, leave it alone for a number of years, would it be best to jar it as moist as it came in the tin?

Why not leave it in the tin, I suppose will be the first question. I smoke fairly infrequently and like to try a lot of stuff, so I typically split a tin into two small jars, one I smoke on now and one for down the road.

Sorry for hijacking.

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I'd think if you intentionally aging for a few years, leave it unopened in the tin. No reason to open it prior. You can always air it and dry it if needed after you do open it. If you are smoking half the tin right away, the only real option is to go about it the way you have been.

Shave_Rat said:

I've not even read anything saying that aging bulk in mason jars is less effective than in tins. I can see it being initially slower, unless you vacuum seal the mason jar when first putting it in, however. Seems the aging really starts once the oxygen in the container is used up, which will happen naturally in a jar, over all, unless you have a very small amount of tobacco and a huge airspace in it. If you pack the jar well, and leave very little to no air space in it, the jar will vacuum seal itself at some point (I've been sitting on the PC and heard the lid "pop" as it happened on various jars in my cellar), as well as opened jars I had for 6 months and they were definitely vacuum sealed by that point.

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What I've read has been against vacuum sealing, saying that an important part of the aging process is for the oxygen to get used up by the microbes (rather than evacuated).

tattooed said:

Here's a question, and hopefully not a total hijack.

I always open my tins, fluff the tobacco and leave it sitting out until it reaches close to where I like to smoke it, as far as how moist it is. Then I jar it up. This has worked well, even laying stuff down for over a year, right amount of moisture. Let's say I want to age the tobacco, leave it alone for a number of years, would it be best to jar it as moist as it came in the tin?

Why not leave it in the tin, I suppose will be the first question. I smoke fairly infrequently and like to try a lot of stuff, so I typically split a tin into two small jars, one I smoke on now and one for down the road.

Sorry for hijacking.

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Enjoy the hijack, my questions have been discussed sufficiently enough already even if there is a little more to say on them.

Prevailing wisdom on your issue, as I've read, has been to buy two tins and cellar one while smoking the other, but that doesn't help with what to do with the opened tin if you're not going to smoke it all immediately. I personally would dry only as much as I'm going to smoke and leave the rest as-is, but I'm certainly NOT the voice of experience!

The same thought occurred to me as I was typing that question. I could just half the tin immediately, put one half in a jar as is, dry my other half for smoking. Not sure why it never dawned on me to do that.

I have followed along those thought lines myself. I am stocking up against the inevitable future increases in taxes, and am jarring it up myself. I use a food saver mason jar adapter in both standard and wide mouth sizes to vacuum seal all my jars. I can say that 5lbs of Mac Baren fits nicely in three half gallon wide mouth jars. They come six to a box, so obviously you should order ten pounds at a time.

If you decide to go with tins, check them periodically. Sometimes the seals will fail on them, wouldn't want it all to dry out. That said, I have a tin of 30 year old plum cake that's still sealed...not sure when I'm going to pop the top on that one.

Domminigan said:

I have followed along those thought lines myself. I am stocking up against the inevitable future increases in taxes, and am jarring it up myself. I use a food saver mason jar adapter in both standard and wide mouth sizes to vacuum seal all my jars. I can say that 5lbs of Mac Baren fits nicely in three half gallon wide mouth jars. They come six to a box, so obviously you should order ten pounds at a time. View attachment 403906

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Nice work! I use this attachment for my degassed beans as well. Works a treat on baccy.

If you run the mason jars through the dishwasher cycle so that they're dry and hot, load them up and throw the lids/rings on them. As the jar cools, it will generally seal itself. Done this for a few years now and it's worked well so far. I use the smaller jelly or pint jars so I don't have a lot of product open at any one time.....

I am not familiar with the Food Saver with the jar attachment, does it remove most/all of the air like it does with the bags?

If so you you are most likely stalling any aging processes. Three Years of Vacuum Sealing - An Experiment Concluded

Commander Quan said:

If so you you are most likely stalling any aging processes. Three Years of Vacuum Sealing - An Experiment Concluded

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Bringing it back around to my original question, stalling the aging process would be acceptable when one is merely hedging against potential future taxation/legal issues.

captaincaveman said:

Bringing it back around to my original question, stalling the aging process would be acceptable when one is merely hedging against potential future taxation/legal issues.

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Sure, but with less equipment and such, you can just jar it so it will keep just as long, and also get the benefits of the aging, if it's a blend that benefits from aging.

What exactly makes a blend good for aging?

I can tell a slight change in a lot of my stuff after a year, and its not always for the better. For example, Ashton's Artisan Blend was leaps and bounds weaker after just a year.