D8EE for setting a bevel?

I got a couple of older razors from an antique store to learn honing on. The blades are dulll but otherwise ok, with no corrosion, chips or anything that will require a major restoration.

I have been reading Joel's favorable impressions of the D8EE. Would that be sufficient to hone these, followed by stropping on paste, or do I need to start off with a lower grit like 4k or lower?

RayG said:

I got a couple of older razors from an antique store to learn honing on. The blades are dulll but otherwise ok, with no corrosion, chips or anything that will require a major restoration.

I have been reading Joel's favorable impressions of the D8EE. Would that be sufficient to hone these, followed by stropping on paste, or do I need to start off with a lower grit like 4k or lower?

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Ray,
The DMT stone is a 3 micron 8,000 mesh - but diamond is WAY more abrasive and cut much faster than any other abrasive (IE: a belgian coticules garnets, or alumina from waterstones) so while it is an 8,000 mesh/grit - it cuts very fast, and removes metal extremely quickly. I would wager - that in almost every instance if you were to splash water on a DMT D8EE and start honing a razor you'd be done honing it before a Norton 4/8K was even finished soaking. Assuming the razor needed a lot of work - you'd have a 10 minute head start on the DMT versus the Norton (which you'd need to make sure was flat, and soak for 10 min) and when you figure - according to DMT's website - 20 seconds on a DMT is equivalent to 5-10 minutes on a conventional stone of the same grit - that 10 minute head start will likely MORE than make up for the lower grit of the Norton 4K.

The short of it is, in my opinion the DMT plate will develop a fine bevel - however for $30 or so you can get the D8EF plate which is 1200 grit - and that'll make a 4K norton, look as slow as a snail.

I have never used the DMT-EE, but many times it will take me at least 15-20 min on a DMT-E (1200) grit before a sufficiently sharp and smooth bevel is created; thicker grinds can take even longer. Because of this I would say that the 8000 grit diamond stone is not going to cut fast enough to set a sharp bevel on a very dull antique or eBay razor in a reasonable amount of time. If you add the DMT-E (and something to finish with after the 8000) then you should have good tools to take on almost any razor if the DMT-EE is as good as Joel says that it is. Like I said I have not used the DMT-EE so I do not know how fast of a cutter it is relative to the DMT-E. You can always start with the DMT-EE and see if it does enough for what you need, then add the DMT-E if you need more cutting power. In general a 4K stone is considered the highest grit level for a bevel creating stone though.

heavydutysg135 said:

I have never used the DMT-EE, but many times it will take me at least 15-20 min on a DMT-E (1200) grit before a sufficiently sharp and smooth bevel is created; thicker grinds can take even longer. Because of this I would say that the 8000 grit diamond stone is not going to cut fast enough to set a sharp bevel on a very dull antique or eBay razor in a reasonable amount of time. If you add the DMT-E (and something to finish with after the 8000) then you should have good tools to take on almost any razor if the DMT-EE is as good as Joel says that it is. Like I said I have not used the DMT-EE so I do not know how fast of a cutter it is relative to the DMT-E.

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The DMT D8EE obviously doesn't cut as quickly as the E (as it's 8K versus 1,200 grit) - however he's asking about the difference between JUST the DMT and JUST a Norton 4/8K. If it takes you 15-20 min on a DMT-E to get a good bevel on a dull razor (it can take me longer than that occasionally with a D8C) - how long would it take you on a Norton 4K? At least for me - it seems to take eons to get a good edge on a razor with a Norton - compared to the DMT plates. When you add in the fact that they do not need to be pre-soaked (so you save an additional 10 min) at least for me, it makes for a MUCH quicker honing job.

I'm just "ga-ga" over DMT plates though.... they're affordable, they work exceptionally well, they do not need to be soaked, they do not need to be flattened, they cut incredibly fast, and they are incredibly easy to use. What's not to like?

Just don't try the D8XX on your razors.

ouch said:

Just don't try the D8XX on your razors.

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NOW you tell me!! Anyone need a Sheffield butter knife?

Thanks, guys.

Let me just rephrase this to make sure I did not misunderstand: Everything else being equal (same operator, etc) -- is there anything that a Norton 4k/8k will do that a D8EE won't?

joel said:

The short of it is, in my opinion the DMT plate will develop a fine bevel - however for $30 or so you can get the D8EF plate which is 1200 grit - and that'll make a 4K norton, look as slow as a snail.

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Would it be ok to jump from 1200 to 8000 grit?

Depends who you ask. I think you could as diamond cuts so quickly.

Thanks, Joel.

I'm a rank amateur at honing, but I think the answer is yes, you can use the DMT 8000 for what you've described.

As evidence: with no experience at all in honing, I needed to repair a major ding in the edge of my Wapienica. The chip was deeper than the bevel, so I had to remove the entire shaving edge.

I followed advice from one of our experts here and used a "bread-knife" stroke, holding the blade perpendicular to the sandpaper to remove metal. (I was told to use 600-grit, I think, and I actually used a coarser grit than that.)

With the damage removed, I restored the edge by "honing" on wet/dry sandpaper, working up to 600-grit. I couldn't find locate anything finer than 600-grit at my local sources, so I started using the DMT8000 at this point. It took some time, but this razor is now as sharp as it ever was.

RayG said:

Would it be ok to jump from 1200 to 8000 grit?

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Since DMT does not make any hones between those grits, I would have to say that it would be OK with the diamond.

heavydutysg135 said:

Since DMT does not make any hones between those grits, I would have to say that it would be OK with the diamond.

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Thanks for pointing that out. Would you say the same logic applies for going from Spyderco Fine (approx 2k) to UF (12-16k)?

RayG said:

Thanks for pointing that out. Would you say the same logic applies for going from Spyderco Fine (approx 2k) to UF (12-16k)?

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Yes, the same logic applies to the Spyderco hones.

Thanks, David. Just trying to make sense of all the varied posts and opinions I have been reading.

RayG said:

Thanks, David. Just trying to make sense of all the varied posts and opinions I have been reading.

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What do you mean? I thought that everything that is posted on the internet is true

Wish I had known about the DMTs a long time ago.