Shaving includes motors and muck

[2bits]

Consider - Hair removal

A) Electro-Chemical
- Depilatories
- Electrolysis
- Laser

B) Physical
B1) Plucking
- waxing
-- sugar waxing

B2) SHAVING*
- wet
- dry


*
- To banish for example - BIC twin disposable and Foamy in cans from
the "theology" of "wet shaving"
is like the church refusing to include Satan and sin in the teaching of the church.

Clearly the whole basis of the theology requires both sides to be of almost any interest at all.

You can't leave the devil out of the Bible and keep the story compelling.

There is no congregation of the "blade and brush" without the misguided worldly legions of "motor and muck"

so ...

It's all about - SHAVING - WET vs DRY
and
the discussion SHAVING methods
- Best/Better/Good/Acceptable/Poor

Note: electric motors are used in both wet and dry arenas

Thoughts?

[Ltltony]

I tried electric a few times, not cheap ones either. The my hair seems to be too course for the screen versions, and the spinning ones leave a bunch of hair and leave my white with flaked up dry skin. The spinning one that spits out shaving gel was a bit better about tearing up my skin, but still left a lot of noticeable hair if I didn't violently scrub my face with it in all directions for ten minutes.

[Thebigspendur]

If you mean we should be discussing other methods of shaving more I don't agree. Afterall the name of the forum is Badger and Blade. I've always thought the whole idea of this forum is to further traditional wet shaving techniques. Maybe I'm wrong.

[2bits]

... other methods of shaving ... the name of the forum is Badger and Blade ... the whole idea of this forum is to further
t r a d i t i o n a l
wet shaving techniques ...

Good point

Question: What to do about the "synthetic" brushes and all the new cosmetic ingredients that might have very short traditions?

Where between a "plastic" handle and propellant added to soap and bone/ivory and making your own soap by hand, does the tradition start and end?

[jellywerker]

I think you are trying to complicate something that isn't. It is prettymuch agreed here that catridge razors and canned creams and wetshaving, but some distantly related bastard child. This forum isn't so much a wetshavers forum per se as it is a "traditional" forum.

[Lionhearted]

Where do the wind-up and battery-powered vibrating DE razors fit?

Foamy in cans with a DE goes back fifty years and was THE traditional method for the majority of wet shavers for about 30 years (roughly 1955-1985). Brush lather was in the minority by the early 50s.

What's advocated in these forums (DE with brush lather) was traditional meaning used by the majority of wet shavers from roughly 1910 to 1950 yet many (or most) here favor razors made after 1950, ones that were almost always used with canned goo. It was traditional to use a Fatboy or Super Speed with canned goo until Internet shaving forums came along and I'm sure the majority of them are still being used with canned goo.

The few thousand people on shaving forums are out of step with the twenty million or so Americans who still use DE razors. Why do you think you can still buy DE blades in almost every village in the U.S.? To supply net forum members? Most who buy DE blades at Walmart or Walgreens pick up a can of aerosol foam to go with them shaving the way they learned in the 50s, 60s and 70s.

The straight users are the ones maintaining true traditional wet shaving and they don't seem to be getting many converts.

Richard

[StGeorge]

Where do the wind-up and battery-powered vibrating DE razors fit?

Foamy in cans with a DE goes back fifty years and was THE traditional method for the majority of wet shavers for about 30 years (roughly 1955-1985). Brush lather was in the minority by the early 50s.

What's advocated in these forums (DE with brush lather) was traditional meaning used by the majority of wet shavers from roughly 1910 to 1950 yet many (or most) here favor razors made after 1950, ones that were almost always used with canned goo. It was traditional to use a Fatboy or Super Speed with canned goo until Internet shaving forums came along and I'm sure the majority of them are still being used with canned goo.

The few thousand people on shaving forums are out of step with the twenty million or so Americans who still use DE razors. Why do you think you can still buy DE blades in almost every village in the U.S.? To supply net forum members? Most who buy DE blades at Walmart or Walgreens pick up a can of aerosol foam to go with them shaving the way they learned in the 50s, 60s and 70s.

The straight users are the ones maintaining true traditional wet shaving and they don't seem to be getting many converts.

Richard

I think you'll find hundreds of millions of people living in "third world" countries still using brushes and other methods as opposed to cartridge razors and cans of foam/gel etc. DE blades significantly outsell cartridges in the world. Look outside your own shores for a change, millions of people are not able to enjoy the luxuries that you do. "Traditional" shaving in the world outstrips the modern technologies we in the West take for granted.
It is canned gel and cartridge users who are in fact in the minority I think you'll find.

[rabidpotatochip]

I had to reread the opening post a few times, just one of those days I guess...

Anyway, even if you're using a disposable and canned goo you can still perform the act of wet shaving. Wet shaving is just using water to improve the overall quality of your shave. The DE/straight shaver can dry shave just by not including water in their routine and the cartridge shaver can wet shave by doing the opposite. In the end it all comes down to the use of water though; why else would it be called wet shaving?

As for that whole traditional versus new mess, I don't really buy into that debate much... I like to look at them as good and bad for me. If I could get the shave I wanted at the cost I wanted with cartridges I wouldn't have bothered making the switch. I don't really care if this is the way people have shaved for decades before me, I care that I'm getting a shave I like and that there are products out there whose smell doesn't make me sick.

That's my blurb as an emissary of the shaving gods (as I've been called at the office).

[arcman]

Where do the wind-up and battery-powered vibrating DE razors fit?

Foamy in cans with a DE goes back fifty years and was THE traditional method for the majority of wet shavers for about 30 years (roughly 1955-1985). Brush lather was in the minority by the early 50s.

What's advocated in these forums (DE with brush lather) was traditional meaning used by the majority of wet shavers from roughly 1910 to 1950 yet many (or most) here favor razors made after 1950, ones that were almost always used with canned goo. It was traditional to use a Fatboy or Super Speed with canned goo until Internet shaving forums came along and I'm sure the majority of them are still being used with canned goo.

The few thousand people on shaving forums are out of step with the twenty million or so Americans who still use DE razors.
...

Do you say this as if it's a bad thing?
Using a DE razor to begin with is going to put one very much "out of step" with the rest of the wet-shaving population in the US. And most that have made a change to a DE (or straight) also use a brush not necessarily because you couldn't possibly shave well with canned gels or foams, but because they've found brush lathering to be ultimately more enjoyable and satisfying, rather than something simply faster or more convenient.

[Lionhearted]

I think you'll find hundreds of millions of people living in "third world" countries still using brushes and other methods as opposed to cartridge razors and cans of foam/gel etc. DE blades significantly outsell cartridges in the world. Look outside your own shores for a change, millions of people are not able to enjoy the luxuries that you do. "Traditional" shaving in the world outstrips the modern technologies we in the West take for granted.
It is canned gel and cartridge users who are in fact in the minority I think you'll find.

Someone who lives in a jungle or the slums of Calcutta isn't a traditional wet shaver as the term is used. In fact, traditional wet shaving is that of upper class England in the first half of the 20th century. I don't know what you imagine but I have never used a cartridge razor or even held one in my hands. I never suggested cartridge shaving was ever a part of traditional wet shaving.

For your information I have looked at some other parts of the world. I served for a time as a physician providing free care to persons in remote areas of Bolivia. I spent three months driving through most of the countries of Central America in a Jeep with three other medical students where we saw some poverty to equal that anywhere in the world. However, the only traditional wet shaving I've seen has been in middle and upper class America and Canada.

Do you say this as if it's a bad thing?
Using a DE razor to begin with is going to put one very much "out of step" with the rest of the wet-shaving population in the US. And most that have made a change to a DE (or straight) also use a brush not necessarily because you couldn't possibly shave well with canned gels or foams, but because they've found brush lathering to be ultimately more enjoyable and satisfying, rather than something simply faster or more convenient.

No, I'm saying that it's an unusual thing. Finding brush lathering "ultimately" more enjoyable and satisfying is part of the cultic aspect of shaving forum wet shaving. I find brush lather fun to make but beyond that I can't tell the slightest smidgen of difference between brush lather and canned foam. Lathering is a chore and a nuisance I find no more enjoyable and satisfying that brushing my teeth or trimming my toenails. I used a DE for more than 40 years out of the 50 plus years I shaved mostly because that's how I started and I saw no reason to change at least not until I found a decent electric shaver in the 1990's. While I've used only a DE for the last six months I'm only a hairbreadth away from going back to the speed and convenience of an electric shaver. The fun of making lather during 20 minutes of messy shaving only slightly outweighs getting a good shave in two minutes.

Richard

[arcman]

No, I'm saying that it's an unusual thing. Finding brush lathering "ultimately" more enjoyable and satisfying is part of the cultic aspect of shaving forum wet shaving. I find brush lather fun to make but beyond that I can't tell the slightest smidgen of difference between brush lather and canned foam. Lathering is a chore and a nuisance I find no more enjoyable and satisfying that brushing my teeth or trimming my toenails. I used a DE for more than 40 years out of the 50 plus years I shaved mostly because that's how I started and I saw no reason to change at least not until I found a decent electric shaver in the 1990's. While I've used only a DE for the last six months I'm only a hairbreadth away from going back to the speed and convenience of an electric shaver. The fun of making lather during 20 minutes of messy shaving only slightly outweighs getting a good shave in two minutes.

Richard

Wait, so do you not enjoy lathering at all, or do you do you find it "fun" to clip your toenails? Because your statements up there don't agree with each other. It would seem awfully curious that you would have such disdain for the hobby that's the subject of this forum, yet remain an active participant in.

...the cultic aspect of shaving forum wet shaving.

Also, it really would be nice if you could participate in a thread without making derisive stereotypes like this.

[Lionhearted]

Wait, so do you not enjoy lathering at all, or do you do you find it "fun" to clip your toenails? Because your statements up there don't agree with each other. It would seem awfully curious that you would have such disdain for the hobby that's the subject of this forum, yet remain an active participant in.

I do NOT enjoy lathering and I do NOT enjoy clipping my toenails. Both are unpleasant chores and in the case of lathering unnecessary as well. I said "no more enjoyable" which placed lathering down there with other petty nuisances. I'm fascinated by many types of unusual or abnormal human behavior but any "disdain" I might have (actually poking fun) is for those preaching "forum wet shaving," not for those who merely choose to use a DE or straight razor. There's a vast difference between a cultist and a user.

Also, it really would be nice if you could participate in a thread without making derisive stereotypes like this.

There's no stereotyping nor derisiveness. Some, not all, shaving forum members exhibit behavior that is both cultlike (ritualistic and evangelical) and abnormal (obsessive/compulsive and addictive).

It's also interesting that when I express any negativity towards "forum wet shaving" then I'm attacked personally rather than my ideas attacked.

As one who's recovered from the shaving "hobby" after getting up to 50 plus razors and 14 brushes I might do some good preventing others from falling into the same addictive and obsessive behavior I exhibited for a while. Think of it as Wet Shavers Anonymous.

Richard

[spinyeel]

I do NOT enjoy lathering and I do NOT enjoy clipping my toenails. Both are unpleasant chores and in the case of lathering unnecessary as well. I said "no more enjoyable" which placed lathering down there with other petty nuisances. I'm fascinated by many types of unusual or abnormal human behavior but any "disdain" I might have (actually poking fun) is for those preaching "forum wet shaving," not for those who merely choose to use a DE or straight razor. There's a vast difference between a cultist and a user.


There's no stereotyping nor derisiveness. Some, not all, shaving forum members exhibit behavior that is both cultlike (ritualistic and evangelical) and abnormal (obsessive/compulsive and addictive).

It's also interesting that when I express any negativity towards "forum wet shaving" then I'm attacked personally rather than my ideas attacked.

As one who's recovered from the shaving "hobby" after getting up to 50 plus razors and 14 brushes I might do some good preventing others from falling into the same addictive and obsessive behavior I exhibited for a while. Think of it as Wet Shavers Anonymous.

Richard

Maybe it's time for you to retire and join a dry shaving forum.Good electric shavers cost a mint and do an average job at best.There are a lot of young chaps getting into wet shaving because it's a fun hobby not a "cult".Loosen up a bit.Try fishing.Then again nahh.

[Lionhearted]

Maybe it's time for you to retire and join a dry shaving forum.Good electric shavers cost a mint and do an average job at best.There are a lot of young chaps getting into wet shaving because it's a fun hobby not a "cult".Loosen up a bit.Try fishing.Then again nahh.

Again remarks directed against me rather than against my ideas... This is contrary to the principles of argument, contrary to Netiquette and contrary to good manners. I didn't know there were any dry shaving forums. I really don't see the point of one any more than I see the point of wet shaving forums. I paid about $140 for my last Norelco and it needed new $30 blades about once a year. This is a drop in the bucket compared to what I spent on my "wet shaving hobby" in the last six months, collecting over 50 razors and 14 brushes and trying over 30 brands of blades. Even then I didn't get into the soap and cream nonsense. A good electric can always do a better job than wet shaving simply because of the way it cuts hair — it splits the ends of the hair as much or more than it slices cleanly making for a very, very soft feel even if the hair is somewhat longer.

There are really not many "young chaps" getting into wet shaving. The largest shaving forum still has less than 7,000 members while over one million new electric shavers are sold each year. Just look at how much shelf space Walmart devotes to electrics and then look at how is given to DE blades, brushes and soap. Wet shaving is absolutely a cult for some of the most vocal in shaving forums but it's certainly not for all.

I never liked fishing very much. My father caught fish assembly line fashion with trot lines strung across the Mississippi. After I had money I used to fly to Manitoba a couple of times a year for "fishing" with three to eight other guys but after an hour of fishing a day (where all of us caught the limit) we got down to the serious business of the trip, good food and all-night poker games at the lodge. I always came back a little richer from these "fishing" trips along with a cooler full of fish filleted by the lodge staff. My son-in-law has an ocean-going boat but when I'm along he's learned not to do much fishing and just act as a sightseeing guide.

Any other suggestions for a hobby? Before razors I collected hearing aids at two to three thousand dollars a pop. That was a more expensive hobby. I still have six hearing aids after selling most of those I collected. FWIW I found the top line Starkey models work best for me with Unitron a close second.

Richard

[ps49556n]

I still really don't get the original intent of this thread but I really agree with what Lionhearted is saying... Yes new to DE shaving and contrary to a statement in this thread, I am a young chap who is interested in this...with that said...I get annoyed when I see people CONSTANTLY repeated over and over how you will save money DE shaving...LOL...the only way you save money is on the razor blades themselves and then the savings get blown on the usual accessories (soaps, creams, colognes, razors, brushes). Face it, this is a cultish hobby, nothing wrong with that. Everyone is different and while some may view brush lathering as a chore other might see it in the total opposite.

Before I found DE shaving recently, I dreaded shaving because cartridges and electrics never worked well for me. Having spent at least $600 alone on electric razors in less than 8 years and probably the same on cartridges and canned gels I can tell you all that the money is the last thing on my mind when it comes to shaving as it is something that gives me quite a bit of satisfaction....I am not here to be part of a cult or whatever you want to call it.

FWIW, I absolutely love making hot lather with a brush and quality cream/soap but no matter how you try to spin it, the lather from modern high end gels is on par if not better in terms of lubrication, hydration, and comfort.

[rabidpotatochip]

...I get annoyed when I see people CONSTANTLY repeated over and over how you will save money DE shaving...LOL...the only way you save money is on the razor blades themselves and then the savings get blown on the usual accessories (soaps, creams, colognes, razors, brushes)...

The problem there is that you're mixing the hobby part of it in with the necessities. If you only buy what you need you do save money with DE shaving since soaps and creams last for months (and you only need one) and the blades are dirt cheap. The fact that some guys spend hundreds of dollars collecting razors, soaps, creams, brushes doesn't mean that DE shaving is more expensive, just that they've turned it into a hobby rather than a chore.

People saying you don't save money because you buy product after product annoys me... as if they're forced to do it; kind of like McDonald's makes you fat... no one forced it on anyone and if people like it that's their business.

[2bits]

Compulsion comes from within.
My "hunger" to acquire
- as much for as little -
may have a source almost identical to someone who is unable to resist acquiring
- more -.

The obsessive/compulsive aspects may be an additional thread (warp) connecting some of the forum members and the "shaving" (woof) is a necessary pretext that masks the fear of being powerless to resist.

If it is just about shaving we are "free" to wallow in all the "choices" and avoid the idea we are "not free" to choose stopping or to limit our involvement.

We joke about our vulnerability and how it is "opposed/resisted" by others close to us (wives) and relish the covert and even the guilt. Then we play the "get out of jail free card" - the devil made me do it.

Like Maggie in the car with Marge in the introduction to The Simpson's
- we have our pretend steering wheel and mimic our mother's steering motions but we know the car is not directed by anything we do.
It is frightening and exciting ... but there is no brake pedal for some of us - not even a pretend one.

[TorzJohnson]

As one who's recovered from the shaving "hobby" after getting up to 50 plus razors and 14 brushes I might do some good preventing others from falling into the same addictive and obsessive behavior I exhibited for a while. Think of it as Wet Shavers Anonymous.

Richard

I'm glad that you have found a way to recover from the obsession and addiction of wetshaving, but I'm afraid that your other mission (saving others from it) is doomed to failure. It's like joining a football team in order to talk your team-mates out of enjoying sports.

[StGeorge]

For your information I have looked at some other parts of the world. I served for a time as a physician providing free care to persons in remote areas of Bolivia. I spent three months driving through most of the countries of Central America in a Jeep with three other medical students where we saw some poverty to equal that anywhere in the world. However, the only traditional wet shaving I've seen has been in middle and upper class America and Canada.

Well if we are defining traditional wetshaving as using a DE or Straight and a brush (Which I believe we are), I suggest you visit India and large parts of Asia and check out how they shave. I think you'll find it will be safety razors or straights all the way. Bearing in mind that there is a huge smog problem (at certain times of the year caused by cooking fires) I'd be very surprised to hear that they are firing up their Mach 3's/Fusions and gel in rural India or China or Thailand or Cambodia etc etc.

A good electric can always do a better job than wet shaving simply because of the way it cuts hair — it splits the ends of the hair as much or more than it slices cleanly making for a very, very soft feel even if the hair is somewhat longer.

I really can't take that comment seriously. Sales of Electric razors are actually in decline since the 60's and 70's and thats a fact. An electric shaver just leaves me and many others feeling and looking barely better than unshaven and I have tried many including one that cost £130 and vibrated at 13000 revs. It still didn't make me feel or look clean shaven.

[Thebigspendur]

I guess anyone who has a hobby where they collect items be it fishing lures, razors, watches, guns, bottles or anything else has some disorder eh?

If people wish to acquire razors or soap or aftershave or brushes and they can afford to do it thats their business. I don't think we need someone telling these people they suffer from some disorder. If you wish to have just one razor and one brush and use canned goo and hate shaving that's your business and that's ok too.

Personally, I don't understand why someone who hates shaving would even want to post here but I guess its like someone who hates guns going on a gun enthusiast site and telling people there to support gun control and I guess thats OK too as long as your willing to take the heat.