Do you believe Roger Clemens ?

**Slant-Fan** · 02-15-2008, 12:05 PM

Maybe I am naive but I believe him when he says that he didn't take steroids. How about you ?

sullivanpm · 02-15-2008, 12:05 PM

I believe that he has convinced himself that he didn't.

**htownmmm** · 02-15-2008, 12:21 PM

My initial response was H--- NO! but I couldn't vote for that one.

Marty

**Holton181** · 02-15-2008, 12:24 PM

No. I got it from inside sources that he's going down. I don't want my federal tax dollars wasted in a stupid case as this, but he's lying through his teeth.

**SmoovD** · 02-15-2008, 12:26 PM

Am I the only person who finds it strange that a drug dealer would keep eveidence of his work? You know, "just in case". It is not so much a matter of if I believe Clemens but if I believe McNamee(?). And I don't. But then I don't really care either way.

**scorpion** · 02-15-2008, 01:02 PM

I don't think there's any doubt. How likely is it that he hired a trainer, paid him to go to three different cities with him in spite of his past legal troubles and character problems, the guy supplies HGH to his best friend AND his wife by Roger's own admission.... and he doesn't take any himself? Please - that doesn't strain credibility... it completely snaps it in half. On top of that Pettite signed an afidavit saying Roger himself told him he'd done HGH - Clemens' explanation? 'Oh that, I was just talking about people who had done HGH on TV, not me. You must have misremembered.' That takes the cake for the weakest excuse I've ever heard.

Pettite has absolutely no incentive to rat on Roger and every reason not to - except that he, unlike most of these guys, has some semblance of a conscience and is uncomfortable lying.

It's weird that in the press, this has taken on some kind of 'Clemens vs the trainer guy' thing. As if the trainer having a single thing wrong then Clemens never took anything. I completely expect that some of what the trainer is saying is false... but that in no way means Roger didn't take any steroids/hgh. McNamee's on the hot seat now, but Clemens could have gotten the stuff from a lot of other places besides him and I don't know why I should doubt that he did.

There's just way too much that doesn't add up for Clemens. He's an aging pitcher who at one time was on the way down. He hires a guy with no real credentials. He knows the guy lied about his resume. Roger knows HGH isn't tested for. He has the money and the clout to hire any trainer in the world and he chooses a disgraced ex-cop with drug connections and a fake resume? Why?

His best buddy gets HGH from him. His WIFE gets HGH from the guy with his knowledge. Meanwhile, Roger is making millions and rewriting the record book for over 40 pitchers... and we're supposed to believe he did it with guts and determination?

I do not think this is an issue with congress. But I'm a baseball fan and discussing it in that context it is important to me. I abhor cheating and lying.

**Ltltony** · 02-15-2008, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by sullivanpm

I believe that he has convinced himself that he didn't.

+1

There is no way he didn't. He looked ridiculous during the hearing.

**JBHoren** · 02-15-2008, 01:03 PM

What with Marian Jones now doing (or about to do) jail time -- and now this crap over Roger Clemens (and so. many. others) -- I'm alluvasudden getting the heebie-jeebies about Yet Another Substance for which Americans will, arbitrarily, be sent to the slammer.

How many American citizens does "our" government need to put into prison, before this country turns completely into a bad sci-fi movie clone?

**scorpion** · 02-15-2008, 01:10 PM

Am I the only person who finds it strange that a drug dealer would keep eveidence of his work?

If you thought your employer would throw you under the bus if he got caught you might. I don't defend McNamee. He's a scumbag. But him being a scumbag doesn't make Clemens innocent - Clemens hired him BECAUSE he was a scumbag, not in spite of it. You lay down with dogs, you get fleas. He had the guy in his home to give his wife illegal hgh injections and he freely admits it - that anyone would doubt he'd take them himself just boggles the mind.

'What's the rationale there? "Yeah honey, they do work and they are illegal without a prescription and Brian isn't a doctor, but sure, why not?' Oh, and I'm way over the age when pitchers start to decline and these could help me make tens of millions of dollars if I took the injections too and baseball doesn't have a test for them, but you go ahead and do it - I'm gonna skip them myself - just not my style.' Please.

**Prince** · 02-15-2008, 01:13 PM

Even though he is very passionate about it, I still don't buy into his innocence.

**JohnP** · 02-15-2008, 01:19 PM

Personally I don't care if he did or not, I'm a bit astonished that some in congress think they need to worry about this but can't be bothered to discuss things that affect the whole country...What's next, congressional hearings on the pool shark at the local bar? I simply do not care! let baseball take care of baseball and congress get back to what it SHOULD be doing.
Just my opinion...
John P.

**slcsteve** · 02-15-2008, 01:26 PM

**scorpion** · 02-15-2008, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by JBHoren

What with Marian Jones now doing (or about to do) jail time -- and now this crap over Roger Clemens (and so. many. others) -- I'm alluvasudden getting the heebie-jeebies about Yet Another Substance for which Americans will, arbitrarily, be sent to the slammer.

How many American citizens does "our" government need to put into prison, before this country turns completely into a bad sci-fi movie clone?

Putting Clemens in prison would be absurd. He's a decent enough guy and he does some really good things - he just cheated at baseball - not the end of the world. Unless people are as upset about lying to congress with him as they were Clinton he should just get off with a spanking.

He damaged the game of baseball and his own character, but I don't think it's a jailable offense. It's completely indefensible and a sign of really weak character, but not a jail cell. He'll do more good out than in. The millions he'll lose is penalty enough.

**scorpion** · 02-15-2008, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Prince

Even though he is very passionate about it, I still don't buy into his innocence.

Every jail in the country is bursting at the seams with folks who are passionate about their innocence. Problem is, some of them are. In this case however, there's just sooooooo much smoke around the fire, at some point you just have to realize, 'yep, that's a fire'.

**thirdeye** · 02-15-2008, 01:52 PM

He's so full of :9898: !!!!!

**ouch** · 02-15-2008, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Slant-Fan

Maybe I am naive but I believe him when he says that he didn't take steroids. How about you ?

I have some beachfront land in Arizona that you may be interested in.

**Bowcephalus** · 02-15-2008, 02:17 PM

Where's the evidence?.........

**TstebinsB** · 02-15-2008, 02:24 PM

I think it is very likely that Clemens took HGH or steroids but I'm not willing to say it's true beyond reprove. Either way, I think these whole proceedings have been an incredible waste of media exposure, Congress' time, and taypayers' money. Some of the members of the committee admitted that they didn't feel these hearings were remotely relevant to their positions as members of the oversight committee. However, since the hearings were called, they might as well go with it.

**jnich67** · 02-15-2008, 02:31 PM

I don't know the answer and I'm not going to spend too much energy thinking about it. I don't think there's any way to know for sure unless some kind of documentation of a sale or something turns up. For now, its "yes he did"/"no I didn't". Its a waste of time for congress to be involved in this, but that's par for the course!

Jordan

**scorpion** · 02-15-2008, 02:35 PM

"I think it is very likely that Clemens took HGH or steroids but I'm not willing to say it's true beyond reprove."

That's an important point. Clemens is not on trial and I'm not sitting on a jury. I'm just a baseball fan... and I've seen plenty to form an opinion. But If I was in the jury box deciding a man's fate I'd need to see all the evidence. At this point no one has been empowered to investigate Clemens - he requested this hearing. Besides, there's not much evidence to collect. Baseball doesn't have an hgh test. He's essentially retired at this point - there's really no reason to investigate him any further. Unless someone wants to press the perjury thing - I'd rather they didn't do that. While I firmly believe he's as dirty as yesterday's socks... he was by no means alone. There's dozens and dozens of guys getting away scot free. The mitchell report got almost everything they got from ONE trainer and ONE clubhouse guy. Fact is if you wwere smart about it and got the stuff overseas anonomously and with cash... then there's no reason to get caught - and I don't doubt that many did just that.