What Is Happening In The Middle East

**mark the shoeshine boy** · 07-14-2006, 05:08 AM

The Israelis are on the move against Lebanon. Lebanon is too weak to disarm Hezbollah and Isreal is after them. What a firestorm in the Middle East. Russia and China are players in here.

Will the "world" pull together on this....

This stuff is scary to me,,,,what do you guys think ?

Mark the shoeshine boy

**guenron** · 07-14-2006, 05:25 AM

What do I think? I think Bashir Assad might wish to rethink his position (presently vertical-potentally permanently horizontal) with his support to Hezbollah. These latest acts could very easily end up resolving the Iran - Syria axis that has been playing hell with the Middle East for years now. The Holy City of Qom could very easily end up becoming a target too, becoming the Holey City... One thing many of us tend to forget, up until recently most thought that the rhetoric of the middle eastern leaders was merely rhetoric. It would seem that the Israelis are taking it seriously and, by the way, will not be driven into the sea.

**designwise1** · 07-14-2006, 05:41 AM

Nothing to be afraid of. The Israelis are doing exactly what any other country should do when attacted without provocation. There was a time when Britain or the US would have gone to war over one soldier. It's time to remove the terrorist threat from the area.
Go, Israel, go!

**Scotto** · 07-14-2006, 05:45 AM

It is worrisome, but good on the Israeli's for taking threats and provocations seriously. Iran wants to divert attention from the Nuclear Question by acting through their proxies Hezbollah and Hamas; the civilized world cannot stand for that. And as for that weasel Assad - off with his head.

My only real concern is that the US doesn't have the balls that Israel does when it comes to ending terrorism once and for all.

**guenron** · 07-14-2006, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by Scotto

It is worrisome, but good on the Israeli's for taking threats and provocations seriously. Iran wants to divert attention from the Nuclear Question by acting through their proxies Hezbollah and Hamas; the civilized world cannot stand for that. And as for that weasel Assad - off with his head.

My only real concern is that the US doesn't have the balls that Israel does when it comes to ending terrorism once and for all.

Rather interesting position Scotto. Now, how do you really feel about it?

Note: Sounds like a MAN that shaved with QED Vetiver this AM.

**ada8356** · 07-14-2006, 05:57 AM

This seems like a decent place for the following plug:

See No Evil: The True Story of a Ground Soldier in the CIA's War on Terrorism is an incredible book that reveals some of the inter-workings of Iran and various terrorists groups.

It's a mini-bio of sorts and sometimes while you are reading it, you have to remind yourself that you are reading about stuff that someone actually did and it's not a Tom Clancy story!

**Xert** · 07-14-2006, 06:10 AM

Eh, so Israel loses a few guys, then invades Lebanon and loses even more in the process in order to...make a point? Way to go destabilize Lebanon, who was just getting its act together after the last occupation and kicked Syria out a few months ago. Suddenly their presence there is not only re-justified, but they will be far more difficult to get rid of next time. Or perhaps Lebanon has had enough of Syria and will turn to Iran for assistance, who of course would never want to take advantage of an opportunity to move military installations to the Israeli border.

**Stauff** · 07-14-2006, 08:20 AM

I think our minister of foreign affairs, Karel De Gucht, has given a good summary: 'Israel has every right to defend itself, but the violence being used is disproportionate'. Going to war with Lebanon surely will destabilise the whole region even more. Possible war in the Middle East is also very bad news for the European economies which were finally showing signs of recovery.

**Scotto** · 07-14-2006, 08:42 AM

Actually, Israel is acting with amazing restraint in my opinion, given the years and years of bombings, civilian deaths, rocket fire, etc. they endure. A proportionate response would be very different indeed than a blockade and infrastructure damage campaign. I am continually amazed at the willingness for appeasement around the world for those who foment terror and publicly cry for the destruction of a state and its people. Neville Chamberlain would be proud.

**MJB** · 07-14-2006, 08:48 AM

These are people and the situation is globally appalling. The sad truth is that since Lebanon cannot fight for herself, her land is being used as a battlefield by other proxies and the end result is people, innocent people--like you and me but unfortunate enough to live in Lebanon--are going to pay the biggest price.

In my opinion, the proportionate argument doesn't really hold water. The Taleban blew up two really big buildings! We took away their country--disproportionate, I guess by some statistic yes but in the real picture--no it was okay. It is true that the Israelis are making a much bigger hit than the Hamas (in Gaza) and Hezbollah (in Lebanon) but at least with the most recent volleys within the past months--Israel is responding more than instigating. If you look at the entire history--you'll never get to the beginning of it since no one will ever find a start point.

Somehow, common interests must be identified. But doing so will result only in the potential for peace and that would put the militants on both sides out of a job--so those militants will be careful not to allow that to happen. If you are a dedicated military leader or a militant terrorist--nothing worse than peace. Then again, if my kid gets hurt by a bomb dropped by someone else in response to something, I had nothing to do with I would have to muster everything I had not to take up arms myself.

Bottom line: this situation is unresolvable unless somehow the two parties are forcibly separated and peace is imposed for generations and people see the advantages of peaceful prosperity and gain something to lose; and who in their right mind would fully step into that hornets nest? Sadly, not resolvable.

MJB

**Joedy** · 07-14-2006, 09:30 AM

Consider this:

Who decides the winner of a war?

The victor or the victim?

It is always the victim. It is only when someone cries Uncle that the war can be considered over (at least if the victor is willing to stop the fighting.) This can only happen once the victim has accepted defeat.

Israel will never have peace until her enemies ask for it. A truce is not a peace; it is just a break from the fighting.

Lordy, what would happen if Latino or Hispanic terrorists came into our country as suicide bombers? Would our reaction be any less or more than the Isreali's?

You can only poke a dog so many times before he decides to take a bite out of your rump.

Isreal's neighbors are currently feeling this bite.

-joedy

**Stauff** · 07-14-2006, 11:18 AM

Intresting. If the Israelis are acting with 'restraint', then I'd say they don't believe themselves that all out war is a solution to their problems. I don't think Israel started these most recent hostilities. It is indeed self defence, but I fear in the long run it will prove counterproductive.

**yasuo200365** · 07-14-2006, 01:30 PM

Religion in politics sucks ..., 'Reason' needs to triumph over religion.
The middle-east question is unlikely to be ever be solved until this happens.
All parties are at fault IMV.

Regards
John

**designwise1** · 07-14-2006, 02:07 PM

The simple facts are that Israel has given in to too many demands. The Palestinians live off handouts from everyone in the region.
I have NO sympathy for terrorism or extortion. Until the radicals start giving their children a real education instead of just teaching them to hate - they're doing nothing but raising little terrorists. The women and children that are in Israel's prisons are not innocent civilians. They were instrumental in helping suicide bombers reach their targets.
It's a good thing I'm not in charge... let 'em eat fish heads!

**ouch** · 07-14-2006, 02:17 PM

When you say that reason has to triumph over religion, bear in mind that the hallmark of fanaticism is not an inability to reason, but an unwillingness to reason.

**Harkonnendog** · 07-14-2006, 02:20 PM

the Lebanese who want Hizbullah out can't push them out. Hopefully the Israeli's will do it for them in such a way that Lebanon can quickly recover and move forward. If that happens it is a win win for Israel and Lebanon, with Syria getting fugged as the cherry on top.

**crackstar** · 07-14-2006, 02:40 PM

Gentlemen, I served in the Israeli army for 10 years, starting in the 1973 Yom Kippur War. I can honestly tell you that Israel is not in the business or practice of starting hostilities or wars just for the sake of starting them. Many people speak of the "aggressive Israeli", but had Israel not behaved a certain way, instead of Jews throughout the world coming to pray at the Western Wall in Jerusalem, her enemies would come to piss on it. Many years ago, Palestinian leaders said that "we are 300 million, and Israel is 3 million. If we all walk shoulder to shoulder, we can throw the Jews into the sea" How should Israel act?

Jeff

**designwise1** · 07-14-2006, 02:47 PM

I salute you, Jeff, and pray that your friends and family back in Israel are safe.

**Harkonnendog** · 07-14-2006, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by designwise1

I salute you, Jeff, and pray that your friends and family back in Israel are safe.

Ditto.

**Xert** · 07-14-2006, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Scotto

Actually, Israel is acting with amazing restraint in my opinion, given the years and years of bombings, civilian deaths, rocket fire, etc. they endure. A proportionate response would be very different indeed than a blockade and infrastructure damage campaign. I am continually amazed at the willingness for appeasement around the world for those who foment terror and publicly cry for the destruction of a state and its people. Neville Chamberlain would be proud.

I certainly agree that Israel's response has been far superior to that which almost every other nation on the planet would have unleashed if they had lived through the same. Having said that, proportionality relative to other nations does not make their response proportionally justifiable to this specific offense. I hope the distinction I am making is understood, so I'll give a parallel example: Someone is singing off key. Compared to every other singer in the world, they might be far closer to being on key than the rest, but the fact remains that they're still off key. Israel's military responses have been remarkably muted and are commendable compared to the vast majority of the world's other nations, however I still think their response is "off key" so to speak, even if off by less than most others.