Workplace Bullying

luvmysuper said:

I'm having a slight bit of difficulty in envisioning how this phenomenon manifests itself.
I mean, we're adults. The work place is comprised completely of adults.

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You've never had a manager in denial of the facts and impossible to have an adult conversation with. You are very lucky.

August West said:

other types of bullies are far more clever and sociopathic in nature.

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This. A bad manager can blame all problems on someone beneath him who he has taken a dislike to. The management hierarchy tends to support the chain of command by default, and these people know how to present themselves in a professional manner to their superiors, even when they are in the wrong.

If it's a peer who's bullying, you at least have the possibility of standing up to him. But if it's someone in charge you have limited choices. Put up with it; stand up to him and suffer the consequences; or get the hell out. I guess that generally you try all three options in that order.

luvmysuper said:

I'm having a slight bit of difficulty in envisioning how this phenomenon manifests itself.

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I think they are trying to link it to the rash of workplace violence. These are academicians presenting this data so this gives you a point of reference.

August West said:

I think they are trying to link it to the rash of workplace violence. These are academicians presenting this data so this gives you a point of reference.

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That explains a LOT, thanks.

rajagra said:

You've never had a manager in denial of the facts and impossible to have an adult conversation with. You are very lucky.

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Quite the contrary. I've had to deal with idiots and jerks in every position I've ever held over the past 40 years of working, including clueless vindictive overlords.
There are always going to be people you get along with and people you do not. You have to deal with people whether or not you like them or they like you.
Jerks only stand when no one stands up to them. There are steps that can be taken to mitigate the effects of "the jerk at work", whether he be a peer or a boss. Take those steps.
Either the problem gets resolved or you wind up working somewhere else. Just living with it in misery is the worst choice that you can make.

I guess I'm just keying in on the whole "bully" aspect of it.
To me, children get bullied. Adults deal with idiots at work.
We seem to have co-opted a childrens term to apply to adult situations in the work place, which may just be a reflection on what has become the modern work place and work force.

Had a bully situation when I went to a new unit, we had a little combatives practice during some down time. No more bully. I wish you could get away with that in the civilian world

Revan said:

Had a bully situation when I went to a new unit, we had a little combatives practice during some down time. No more bully. I wish you could get away with that in the civilian world

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As I have always worked in blue collar trades, and quite frankly I don't really give off the impression that I would tolerate bullying/antagonizing behavior, I haven't personally experienced it in the work environment. However, my wife works in the healthcare industry, where doctors are allowed to behave in ways that would get the average CEO of fortune 500 companies shown the door. Especially if said doctors are cardiothoracic surgeons in an area where several hospitals are in short supply of them. Nurses are easy to replace and surgeons are hard to come by, so guess what happens to nurses who rock the boat? Luckily my wife is a well established RN with more certifications than can fit on her name tag, so she garners some respect. Many a coworker have moved on to different areas of healthcare away from the hospital environment either by choice or because they had no choice.

Have unfortunately had more than my fair share of utterly toxic bosses. In my experience there is no fix - you either grit your teeth and live with it, or get out. "Standing up to them" either singles you out for even worse treatment, or gets you a trip to HR and then out the door with bad reviews for your next employment prospect.

A schoolyard bully can be backed down with a smack to the nose. There is no cure for a truly toxic boss. Anyone who thinks they can be dealt with has never had one.

There are no bullies at my work, just lazy people that can't be bothered to work and that's if they turn up. You would have thought the managers would react, but no, being drinking buddies and Facebook friends stands for more than integrity these days. This is a multi million pound company we're talking about.

I had a boss that was a bully and a true chauvinist, he was a jerk to everyone and he targeted women. All the women ended up on anti-depressants and eventually quit. The entire sales force rotated in a period of two years.
On one occasion I missed a sales meeting due to my son being in the emergency room all night and then being admitted to the hospital. I went in after my son was released and was called into the sales managers office. I explained that my son was very ill, admitted to the infectious ward and the doctors had no idea what was wrong with him. His comment was that I should have come to work and let my wife handle the situation. He further explained that he dropped his wife off at labor and delivery and visited her after she had their daughter. He then went into detail about how important it was that I should do my job and take care of my family by going into work no matter what the situation was. I sat there and said, " Hmm maybe that's why your wife divorced you" He blew up and then said I didn't fit in as I would not go out drinking and spend weekends away from my family. My comment, "Yeah you are right, I intend to stay married and spending time with you and the other reps out drinking on the weekends will not work". A month later I was at a new job..

I watched people go to HR and Human relations and nothing was done. Over the years I saw horrible managers stay and promising people leave. As a friend of my said, "This operation would condone cannibalism if it brought bottom line profits."

August West said:

So true and was heavily discussed. Apparently we are conditioned to think of the bully in the traditional 'schoolyard' sense. I am not an expert but I gather these other types of bullies are far more clever and sociopathic in nature. Difficult to recognize in many cases as they weave a web of distrust and discrmination based on their agenda of self aggrandizement and prejudices.

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Every word here describes perfectly a person who bullied me at work.

Go through it everyday. I just realize that they have the mental capacity of a five year old and it makes me laugh.

luvmysuper said:

Quite the contrary. I've had to deal with idiots and jerks in every position I've ever held over the past 40 years of working, including clueless vindictive overlords.

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My point was that although technically we work with adults, they don't always behave in an adult way.

I guess I'm just keying in on the whole "bully" aspect of it. To me, children get bullied. Adults deal with idiots at work.

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To me, the bullying mentality is very clear when it happens. It's the same thing as childhood bullying but in a different environment, with different power structures I guess.

While I've never been bullied at work, I have known people who behaved as bullies. Maybe that's a big difference, but the consequences can be just as bad. At one place I worked a guy committed suicide, and it turned out it was because of the way he was being treated. The company then brought in a policy banning "laddish behaviour" which was a real downer because normal joking around was not allowed. It would be nice to believe that grown-ups can all deal with hurtful behaviour, but it isn't always true.

And I have to say ... I've always worked with mature people. But in recent years society has become increasingly childish. They've even created the "young adult" category to describe an age group that were formerly just called adults. Many people are ridiculously emotional and overreact to trivial things. They are more likely to both be bullies and be incapable of dealing with bullies. This infanticizing of society is worrying, but I don't see it stopping any time soon.

Ironically, the fact that bullying is frowned upon is responsible for this and other ills in society - because we aren't allowed to be too critical of silly behaviour.

It is important to realize bullying is about power and control. These workplace psychopaths are REWARDED for their bullying. It is always a case of, "I have power over you and will make you pay if you don't do what I want." Many managers, CEO do not/will not see the abuse. They may even be victims of the bully themselves, but more often will simply not get involved.
Remember that psychopaths are sneaky and charming. They can often use the system to get their way. They will even strike first by claiming to have had problems with their victims so that the radar is on the intended target and not them. If the bully is the boss they may try to get coworkers to implicate the victim in minor things to "build their case." All of this is compounded by the fact most workplaces use lousy personnel and conflict techniques so that the accused does not know who their accuser is to confront them. Anonymous complaints are the norm in many places even though they are unfair and irresponsible. So the climate is created wherein bullies and psychopaths can play and win.
This is what happens when we consider human beings as simply "resources" rather than people.

Instead of digging out a textbook definition, let me illustrate by way of experience.

My organisation has policies which ostensibly protect employees. In a situation where certain managers/execs feel they are not required to uphold those policies, what choice does the employee have?

OK, stand up to them, you might say. Very sound, laudable even.

But when those same managers/execs pwn your future performance review, and they remind you that by raising a concern with HR you may well have jeopardised any chance you have of achieving a reasonable performance review, then that's bullying.

Bullying is lots of things, but at heart it is about fear. It is a defect in the individual, and it is an outgrowth of bad corporate culture.

You have to do something if you are in that situation.
Accept it and live in misery. Some people may prefer this because they so fear confrontation, but it serves them no purpose, nor does it help anyone down stream of them.
Don't confront it and secretly look for other employment opportunities. This is a viable option for those who fear confrontation. It will resolve the problem as far as it concerns them, but does nothing for others downstream.
Confront it and risk either getting fired or resolving the problem. This is the hardest choice. But choosing this path at best resolves a problem for you and for others who may follow you. At worst it gets you out of a miserable situation and makes the individual known in "collective memory". It may make take an extraordinary amount of time or similar situations, but any business that wishes to stay in business will eventually take notice of the individual involved in so many similar "problems".

To do nothing means a miserable life, and I personally won't accept that. Each individual must do what he / she feels most comfortable with and my personal philosophy may not be the right choice for you.

August West said:

This Professor stated that if you are comfortable with yourself as a person, well-liked, and/or good at your job. you are more likely to experience this.

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Makes sense. People who aren't any of the above will view you as different and/or threatening to them.

I have worked at a few places that have workplace bullies. The most current is at a large north east bank that feels that they can ignore the issue. Multiple complaints to management and HR and nothing is being done. So I’m out! I have since found another job and I’m leaving the bank. I’ve never worked in a more toxic environment in my life.

HotToddy said:

I have worked at a few places that have workplace bullies. The most current is at a large north east bank that feels that they can ignore the issue. Multiple complaints to management and HR and nothing is being done. So I’m out! I have since found another job and I’m leaving the bank. I’ve never worked in a more toxic environment in my life.

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Bravo! I salute your integrity and courage. It isn't easy to make that kind of choice.

luvmysuper said:

Bravo! I salute your integrity and courage. It isn't easy to make that kind of choice.

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Me too. Unfortunately, it is the only option in most cases and is a courageous choice. You have your integrity.

My take is that the world has become too "civilized."

In the "old days" a lot of these people would have been taken "behind the woodshed" by their peers and given an "attitude adjustment."

What was once a well-established tradition will now have you up on felony charges.

More's the pity.

Ww