The "Chrome" Toggle That Isn't

This thread was a great read but I think the questions have been answered. Cap certainly knows a thing or two about vintage Gillettes. If he says it's factory plating, that's good enough for me.
Congrats Glenn! A one of a kind Toggle. Very cool stuff.

GlennConti said:

**** There is nothing wrong with it mechanically and Cap is "dead-set on this one being original gold plating" so there is no reason to risk damage to the razor by disassembling it further. ****

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Good call. Well done. Congrats Gents.

GlennConti said:

Cap and I have been discussing via PM what to do next with this razor. There is nothing wrong with it mechanically and Cap is "dead-set on this one being original gold plating" so there is no reason to risk damage to the razor by disassembling it further. Cap is going to fix the black paint for me. So with Cap's endorsement and Stan's endorsement, I am now 100% that this is a one of a kind "from-the-factory" gold plated "chrome" toggle. (Who know maybe someone will find another one, like my and staxchipswell's nickel plated A-3 toggles).

So I think it is time to do the happy dance:

View attachment 551410

Many thanks to everybody who participated in this thread and project.

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As I said before, I didn't want tosuggest on disassembling it for that same reason. Those parts are hard to find.

GlennConti said:

Is there more to learn if we disassemble the razor further? I'm game if you feel we can do it. I want to be as certain that this is "from-the-factory" gold plated as we can be. But don't feel pressured either Cap. If at any point you don't think it is worth it to continue, please stop. Thanks.

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Way too risky. ..

Hi,

My educated guess is the Gillette factory made up a few gold plated ones for special presentation items. With the things I have worked on as an R+D engineer whose job was to support the factory's production issues, I have seen many specials like this, including gold plating of things never meant to be gold plated. Heck, also covered in diamonds and other gemstones.

It would have been really easy for them to gold plate a few of these, since other production razors would have meant operating gold plating stations every day. I have been thinking this all along, but just waiting for Cap to pull some of it apart and report. For me, this was the key step to knowing anything for real.

BTW, imagine trying to shave with a diamond encrusted razor..... Glad they didn't do that! Or, glad I am not the one who has to try it, anyway.

Stan

This thread has been very interesting and phenomenally educational [emoji2]

Thank you guys for the well wishes. I too have had a lot of fun with this thread. I was really sweating out the Captain's decision. So of course I'm glad it went my way. He is the man!

Can I ask a noob question? is it possible this is/was a prototype? maybe someone farther along in the process asked about the ring being black instead of gold?

Hi Glenn, If the Cap says it is not a re-plate than that is a good or solid opinion. With all the variables and the dial being (matte finish and maybe it was not part of the orig re-plate who knows) It seems to me that the only way to tell after we heard of the black paint rings part, is to take it apart. I would not do that but that is the way to see the inside plates as we did with the other toggle in question. All of these opinions are great and come from great sources but we cannot pay off the Jury per say or rally a group to convince. We may never know but always a cool razor being a toggle.

FatboySlimadjustable said:

Can I ask a noob question? is it possible this is/was a prototype? maybe someone farther along in the process asked about the ring being black instead of gold?

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It is possible that this razor was made as one of the first of the "Chrome" F-4 Toggle production run. But it could just have as easily been the last. I don't really know. But nice idea though, I kind of like thinking it may have been one of the first.

GlennConti said:

It is possible that this razor was made as one of the first of the "Chrome" F-4 Toggle production run. But it could just have as easily been the last. I don't really know. But nice idea though, I kind of like thinking it may have been one of the first.

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Not sure why someone would take a re-plated razor and then take black paint and touch up the rings on the handle? It's like they thought.. hey the re-plate job wore off sooner than expected so lets..make it look new again and paint the black rings before we sell it...or like hanging a valued chandler in a haunted house. well any who..if the black paint was not pointed out then we would have at least known, it was not messed with per say, since the non factory re plate work was done moons ago.

LONG BEACH said:

Not sure why someone would take a re-plated razor and then take black paint and touch up the rings on the handle? It's like they thought.. hey the re-plate job wore off sooner than expected so lets..make it look new again and paint the black rings before we sell it...or like hanging a valued chandler in a haunted house. well any who..if the black paint was not pointed out then we would have at least known, it was not messed with per say, since the non factory re plate work was done moons ago.

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Hi LB, I believe this razor (as does the experts that have seen it) is original from the factory excepting the touch up black paint (which is obviously after market). Cap has partially disassembled the razor to expose gold plated internal parts. The razor shows no marks or scuffs which would indicate the razor was previously disassembled. The adjuster is matte finish which replaters cannot do. The razor has an undercoat of nickel plating which would have been removed by the replater had it been originally nickel. The wear and scratches are consistent with an original gold plating. All of the evidence leads me to believe beyond a reasonable doubt that the gold plating is original. In fact, we do not have any evidence that it has been replated.

The only thing you are offering is that the razor's paint has been touched up. Agreed, but this does not preclude the razor from being originally gold.

I hope no one will be offended if I paraphrase my son: haters gonna hate.
Congrats Glenn.

DrAwkward said:

I hope no one will be offended if I paraphrase my son: haters gonna hate.
Congrats Glenn.

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Thanks Doc. I appreciate the vote of confidence.

I'll say it again, Cap says it's from the factory, it's from the factory, not a replate. Period.

Congrats Glenn.

nuclearblast said:

I'll say it again, Cap says it's from the factory, it's from the factory, not a replate. Period.

Congrats Glenn.

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Many thanks Edgar.

GlennConti said:

Hi LB, I believe this razor (as does the experts that have seen it) is original from the factory excepting the touch up black paint (which is obviously after market). Cap has partially disassembled the razor to expose gold plated internal parts. The razor shows no marks or scuffs which would indicate the razor was previously disassembled. The adjuster is matte finish which replaters cannot do. The razor has an undercoat of nickel plating which would have been removed by the replater had it been originally nickel. The wear and scratches are consistent with an original gold plating. All of the evidence leads me to believe beyond a reasonable doubt that the gold plating is original. In fact, we do not have any evidence that it has been replated.

The only thing you are offering is that the razor's paint has been touched up. Agreed, but this does not preclude the razor from being originally gold.

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Glenn,

You did an excellent job of touching on the major points that support our argument here. The touch-up paint is a very simple modification that can be applied to freshly-plated razors as well as original razors. As we all know, the blued areas on these adjustables have commonly lost their color over the years of use. I have taken apart hundreds of fatboys and about 90% of them have worn out blueing on the collets and thin rings on earlier models. In my honest opinion, the repainting of these areas (such as the lower ring and indicator spring on this toggle) does not carry the significance that it needs to call this one a "replate".

Additionally, when I removed the black touch-up paint that someone applied previously to this ring, (and I used ultrasonic power to do this) I thoroughly dried the razor and then put it under my magnifying glass to inspect the area and what I found proves that this one is original from-the-factory gold plating. There were remnants of old, worn-out blueing. Heck, it looked just like one of those worn collets on a tired, used fatboy. There's simply no need to question this further but for those who are just checking into the thread or need more proof, I will supply a few more supporting pieces of info.

Please refer to the photos below. This is a factory Gold toggle that Paul (tukyou) sent me for my initial toggle disassembly. It was seized, dirty, and worn out. Please note the verdigris and worn out blueing on the rings. Paul gave me the go ahead on this one to take it apart so I proceeded and successfully disassembled my first Gillette Toggle. Afterwards, I sent it to Chris Evatt, our most reputable replater here on B&B and a very well-educated man to boot. Note the original matte finish of the adjuster dial:

This is PRIOR to replating.

After Chris Evatt was done with is gold replating services on Paul's toggle parts, he sent them back to me so I could reassemble the razor and apply fresh paint to those areas that require it. Here is the replated Gillette Toggle of Paul's:

Please note the entirely different finish of the adjuster dial. The factory matte finish is gone. The razor looks absolutely brilliant and Chris did an outstanding job on this one, especially considering the condition of the base metal. The point is that replating of this toggle resulted in a smooth, glossy surface on the adjuster dial.

Also, when I received the toggle back from Chris, the areas that were originally blued on this razor were freshly plated in gold (as Chris knew that I would be repainting these areas). If Glenn's toggle would have been a replate, I would NOT have found old blueing where the "aftermarket paint was applied and then later removed, by me. Furthermore, in order to replicate this old worn out blueing, someone would have had to chemically mask the area prior to replating and then remove the chemical and blue the area or vise versa....pretty intricate work for someone who couldn't seem to run a paintbrush

I think I have beat this horse through the pavement...BUT, let's take a look at one more toggle that I have worked on. Below is an original gold toggle that I have recently worked on. It came in for the works and it basically looked the same as Paul's, in a little better condition though Anyways, look at the original finish of the gold plating on this toggle and compare it to Glenn's:


The finishes are virtually identical. Worn plating in the common "worn" areas, matte adjuster dial, etc. Need I beat the horse any longer? Thank you Gentlemen for all of your input and everything.

^^I will get some better photos of Glenn's razor once I am finished with it and then we can make a close comparison to Mcjohns3's.

Any more questions?