Did someone say Bagels???
Tartine Bread
- Thread starter Sullybob
- Start date
I knew that would get your attention!
Just an update....
I've been dabbling with a couple of recipes and techniques the last few weeks. I made a plain-old white sandwich bread from Reinhart's Bread Maker's Apprentice, using buttermilk and yeast....it was PDG. I also took on two Tartine recipes in the same day, one a Semolina boule (70% semolina flour and 30% AP) and the other an Oatmeal Porridge loaf (also in boule form). Both were leavened with my starter, and came out excellent.
The porridge bread came out of Tartine 3, and was really something special. The night before you bake it, you mix some rolled oats with water and a tablespoon of starter to preferment the grains overnight. After cooking the grains and cooling, you mix the cooked porridge into the regular Tartine Country Loaf. That loaf was moist, flavorful and incredibly satisfying. I made a peanut butter sandwich out of two slices of that bread and took it on a flight, and I was set until dinner.
I've been dabbling with a couple of recipes and techniques the last few weeks. I made a plain-old white sandwich bread from Reinhart's Bread Maker's Apprentice, using buttermilk and yeast....it was PDG. I also took on two Tartine recipes in the same day, one a Semolina boule (70% semolina flour and 30% AP) and the other an Oatmeal Porridge loaf (also in boule form). Both were leavened with my starter, and came out excellent.
The porridge bread came out of Tartine 3, and was really something special. The night before you bake it, you mix some rolled oats with water and a tablespoon of starter to preferment the grains overnight. After cooking the grains and cooling, you mix the cooked porridge into the regular Tartine Country Loaf. That loaf was moist, flavorful and incredibly satisfying. I made a peanut butter sandwich out of two slices of that bread and took it on a flight, and I was set until dinner.
Hello all, I'm a lurker on this particular forum but I have a couple of questions I'm hoping you can help me with.
I've been baking sourdough for about 18 months and, after a few disasters earlier on, I'm now regularly turning out good, well risen loaves. My current recipe is one that I've adapted from NorthWest Sourdough: after the initial autolyse, it's folded once an hour for five hours, then put in a banneton for a cold rise in the fridge for 12-15 hours. So there is no kneading involved. I also reduced the amount of water in the original recipe as the dough was far too slack and spread sideways after I turned it out. I spray the loaf liberally with water before baking in a dutch oven for 15 minutes, and then uncover for a further 15-20 minutes.
Usually, the results are very good (I'll try to remember to post a picture sometime), but I have two questions:
Sometimes the dough is too slack, even though I have stuck to the same recipe and technique. The bread then spreads too much, even though it's still perfectly edible. The only thing I can think of is how active the sourdough starter is - if it's too active, might the dough over-prove? I was thinking that I should maybe not add all the water at once and only using the full amount if the dough feels too dry after the autolyse? Any other thoughts?
The crust. Is great when first out of the oven, but it softens after a few hours. Most of the time it doesn't matter as the bread is mainly toasted, but are there any tips for keeping a crust crusty for more than a couple of hours?
Thanks all!
I've been baking sourdough for about 18 months and, after a few disasters earlier on, I'm now regularly turning out good, well risen loaves. My current recipe is one that I've adapted from NorthWest Sourdough: after the initial autolyse, it's folded once an hour for five hours, then put in a banneton for a cold rise in the fridge for 12-15 hours. So there is no kneading involved. I also reduced the amount of water in the original recipe as the dough was far too slack and spread sideways after I turned it out. I spray the loaf liberally with water before baking in a dutch oven for 15 minutes, and then uncover for a further 15-20 minutes.
Usually, the results are very good (I'll try to remember to post a picture sometime), but I have two questions:
Sometimes the dough is too slack, even though I have stuck to the same recipe and technique. The bread then spreads too much, even though it's still perfectly edible. The only thing I can think of is how active the sourdough starter is - if it's too active, might the dough over-prove? I was thinking that I should maybe not add all the water at once and only using the full amount if the dough feels too dry after the autolyse? Any other thoughts?
The crust. Is great when first out of the oven, but it softens after a few hours. Most of the time it doesn't matter as the bread is mainly toasted, but are there any tips for keeping a crust crusty for more than a couple of hours?
Thanks all!
Nick-What type of flour are you using for your loaves? If the protein content is low, then you might not be building enough gluten to give the loaf enough structure. You could also work in a couple of extra folds initially. I typically work the dough a bit before the 3-5 hour rise with folds.
For the crust, are you putting it in a plastic bag? If not, what's the humidity like in your house?
Thanks for this. Yes, it's a proper bread flour so there should be no problem with the gluten development. As for the crust - I prove the dough overnight in the fridge with the banneton covered by a shower cap. I make sure there is plenty of moisture in the covered Dutch oven when I first put it in. I cook it uncovered for the last 15-20 minutes, but usually don't add any more steam at this stage.
I don't think the house is especially humid one way or another. I keep the bread in a sealed plastic container once it has cooled down.
My suggestion would be to give the dough a good bit of stretching (by this I mean like 4 or 5 good 4 point turns) before starting the clock on your 5 hour room temperature bulk fermentation. I've found that doing so generates enough gluten to give the dough ball some structure initially, even though it goes slack when the gluten relaxes.
Re: the crust, I've found that as soon as I put it in a sealed container (be it a bag or box), I lose the crispness of the crust. I've taken to leaving it out or in a paper bag for the first day or so to keep the crust, but cover the cut side with some plastic to keep the crumb from drying out. I eventually have to put it away to keep it from turning into a crouton, though, and lose the nice crisp crust in the process.
Re: the crust, I've found that as soon as I put it in a sealed container (be it a bag or box), I lose the crispness of the crust. I've taken to leaving it out or in a paper bag for the first day or so to keep the crust, but cover the cut side with some plastic to keep the crumb from drying out. I eventually have to put it away to keep it from turning into a crouton, though, and lose the nice crisp crust in the process.
Home for what was expected to be a blizzard today, so I've mixed up a 30% spelt loaf using yeast and Forkish's same-day white bread method.
- Thread starter
- #410
That bread looks great Bob! I love the color, nice caramelization.
I did a mash up of the Forkish method with Tartine's bake: Heat to 500, bake covered for 20 mins at 500, uncover and reset the temperature to 450 so that the loaf bakes for another 20 mins while it cools. I find it is gentler than Forkish's blast it at 475 for 40-45 mins.
I started baking bread about 3 years ago using the Cook's Illistrated variation of Lahey's recipe. About a year and a half agai I bought Tartine Bread to surprise my sister, bro-in-law and niece since they love sourdough and had been enjoying my fake sourdough loaves. I got my starter (mother?) going for a couple of weeks before it developed mold. Not sure what happened or why and I never got on that horse again or told my sister about my goal to bake them true sourdough. I just continued with my CI loaves week after week.
Recently she had a dinner party and one of her friends brought his Tartine bread. The next day I asked her how the bread was. She said she and her family prefers the CI loaves better, said it tastes more sour. I was confused until I remembered what Chad said in his book, he doesn't like or make a terribly sour loaf.
So I continue with the CI recipe.
No matter which recipe one uses, homemade bread is a beautiful thing. Here's one of my nicest looking spicy cheese loaves.
Recently she had a dinner party and one of her friends brought his Tartine bread. The next day I asked her how the bread was. She said she and her family prefers the CI loaves better, said it tastes more sour. I was confused until I remembered what Chad said in his book, he doesn't like or make a terribly sour loaf.
So I continue with the CI recipe.
No matter which recipe one uses, homemade bread is a beautiful thing. Here's one of my nicest looking spicy cheese loaves.
That looks awesome.
There is a real difference between the Tartine sourdough loaves and others I've tried. The difference seems to be that Tartine uses a young starter (12 hours since feeding) compared to 24 hours for the others. The tastes are noticeably different. I also find the Tartine starter is a little more frisky than the other recipes when it comes to the rise.
Personally, I like a more sour taste to the loaves, but the family prefers the milder version, so I've taken to mixing Tartine methods in with the other recipes.
There is a real difference between the Tartine sourdough loaves and others I've tried. The difference seems to be that Tartine uses a young starter (12 hours since feeding) compared to 24 hours for the others. The tastes are noticeably different. I also find the Tartine starter is a little more frisky than the other recipes when it comes to the rise.
Personally, I like a more sour taste to the loaves, but the family prefers the milder version, so I've taken to mixing Tartine methods in with the other recipes.
- Thread starter
- #414
That's a great looking loaf Taz. Is it an adaptation of the CI recipe?
I've never been a fan of very sour bread, I prefer the Tartine loaves because of the young starter.
I've never been a fan of very sour bread, I prefer the Tartine loaves because of the young starter.
An interesting effect of the lower gluten loaf caused by the spelt is that it has a much more open crumb than other artisanal loafs that are just wheat flour-based.
Thanks Sullybob! Yes, it's the CI recipe with cheese, pepper flakes and oregano. However, I no longer add oregano. I found a cheese loaf recipe early on and it had something like 12 oz of cheese. I love cheese, but wasn't looking to make a makeshift pizza, lol. I kept reducing the cheese amount until I got it to where I wanted it. Then I messed with which cheddar cheese to use.
I don't like sourdough either. The CI recipe has just enough flavor for me without coming off as sourdough to me.
You Tartine guy make me jealous. From what I read naturally leavened loaves last more days before going stale. Correct? On the other hand, my loaves don't last long as they get consumed quickly, lol. Even if they don't I slice them, freeze them and toast them as needed. It makes for great toast IMO.
That is a beautiful loaf of bread, Bob!
I hope it taste as good as it looks.
- Thread starter
- #420
That looks great Bob!
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