Koma Question

oakeshott · Jun 4, 2013

I have a new Koma and have used it on about three or four razors so far and am about to use it in a progression with another one today. Here's my question. It seems that the edge gets duller off the Koma from the Mejiro. In order to address this, I spend more time honing on the Koma slurry through more series of dilutions of the slurry and the edge "seems" to come back though I don't know that it's any finer. Last night's shave, with an edge in which I really focused on this part of the progression, seemed more like a coti edge than a jnat edge by which I mean quite comfortable and unwilling to cut the skin, but still quite sharp.

My question is: Given the variability among these stones, could the Koma be a rougher grit than the Mejiro? Or, is there some obvious thing I'm doing wrong?

mainaman · Jun 4, 2013

is it asano stamped koma or one of the Aframes ones?

Brooksie967 · Jun 4, 2013

Stefan, didn't you post something about the particles of these things eventually ending up the same, as long as you work it long enough anyways?

mainaman · Jun 4, 2013

Brooksie967 said:
Stefan, didn't you post something about the particles of these things eventually ending up the same, as long as you work it long enough anyways?

yes the end result is the same for the edge.

Gamma · Jun 4, 2013

It's entirely possible that the worked Mejiro slurry is finer than the starting Koma slurry.

Some Nagura produce slurry that breaks faster, or gets finer than others, plus - being that they're naturalthings that come out of the ground - their qualities can change with time and use.

I have one Mejiro that seems to be so fine that Ive only had success by following it with a couple of the Koma I have.
Otherwise, the rest of the Koma I own is finer than the Mejiro I own, and their slurry breaks down finer also.

As for the the Asano/non-Asano thing, stamps don't mean spit.
There are good and bad Nagura on either side of that fence.
What matters is how your Nagura are working with your Awase in your progression.
Trust me - the Awase doesn't know if the Nagura were stamped or not.
Some of the best Nagura I own are not Asano pieces.

Also - sometimes the Nagura needs to be coaxed.
Not every stone gets along with every other stone - they're funny like that.

oakeshott · Jun 4, 2013

mainaman said:
is it asano stamped koma or one of the Aframes ones?

This one came from aframes.

Gamma said:
It's entirely possible that the worked Mejiro slurry is finer than the starting Koma slurry.

Some Nagura produce slurry that breaks faster, or gets finer than others, plus - being that they're naturalthings that come out of the ground - their qualities can change with time and use.

I have one Mejiro that seems to be so fine that Ive only had success by following it with a couple of the Koma I have.
Otherwise, the rest of the Koma I own is finer than the Mejiro I own, and their slurry breaks down finer also.

As for the the Asano/non-Asano thing, stamps don't mean spit.
There are good and bad Nagura on either side of that fence.
What matters is how your Nagura are working with your Awase in your progression.
Trust me - the Awase doesn't know if the Nagura were stamped or not.
Some of the best Nagura I own are not Asano pieces.

Also - sometimes the Nagura needs to be coaxed.
Not every stone gets along with every other stone - they're funny like that.

The way I've handled this is exactly how you describe; spend more time breaking down the komo slurry. It was just so dramatic, compared to the rest of the progression, that I thought something might be wrong.

mainaman · Jun 4, 2013

oakeshott said:
This one came from aframes.

The way I've handled this is exactly how you describe; spend more time breaking down the komo slurry. It was just so dramatic, compared to the rest of the progression, that I thought something might be wrong.

so did you get the result you were looking for?

oakeshott · Jun 4, 2013

mainaman said:
so did you get the result you were looking for?

Well, I think so. I'm just now figuring out what's been going on with my edges and by figuring out, I mean just a glimmer of sunlight in a corner of a large dark room. I got some additional help via PM that should make a difference as well. I've probably been using much too thick a slurry, especially with the Koma, and probably need to back off a little. The Tenjyou I have slurries noticeably less than the other Nagura and I think my progressions after it tend to be a little heavy handed.

jpcwon · Jun 4, 2013

I too have a "non-Asano" Koma from aframes and I find that it works just fine in all honesty. I think you're on the right track Oakeshott, as far as not using too thick a slurry. I also decrease the pressure & stroke count as I progress from Botan to Koma. I usually do a few sets of circles followed by x-strokes on Botan and Tenjyou, but I drop the circles and just do light x-strokes on mejiro and fewer x strokes on Koma. Seems to work well for me.

Kentos · Jun 5, 2013

Other than when redoing bevels on botan, I like my slurry "misty", but YMMV.

oakeshott · Jun 7, 2013

Thanks to everyone who replied to this and the folks who dropped me PM's with suggestions. The short version is that I used much less slurry this morning and maybe an extra dilution or two on the Koma and got great results. Not only is the result better, but I just increased the life of my Nagura by 3x.

Gamma · Jun 7, 2013

Excellent - Enjoy the Koma Kool....it's quite fine once you get in the zone.

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